Labyrinth,the worst content ever made in POE?

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Calgus wrote:

Nope, sorry, you have to work for what you want....
Entitlement at it's finest.

While I'm not a super fan of the LAB and it's current setup (it shouldn't take 10+ min to complete while doing a "speed run"), I don't agree that it should be changed drastically so that people can bypass it. I'm sure there is a compromise here that people could live with. One similar to the way Act 4 is basically making Act1 in the next difficult a null issue.

Entitled, right. I think you should have to play and win qwop before you can advance any of your characters.

I actually agree here. The labyrinth gate behind the ascendancy points is abit frustrating. Ofourse when you get those 6 points you are extremely happy since you don't have to do that labyrinth again so you do get a sense of accomplishment. However I must admit not my cup of tea.

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Burmeister99 wrote:

I actually agree here. The labyrinth gate behind the ascendancy points is abit frustrating. Ofourse when you get those 6 points you are extremely happy since you don't have to do that labyrinth again so you do get a sense of accomplishment. However I must admit not my cup of tea.

Hell NO! "Farm" or "grind" enhancements are worst thing ever. Even CoC less cancer then rng system that enhancement work.

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Telzen wrote:

The labyrinth is just a dungeon with traps. And yep dungeons don't go in ARPGs right? Oh wait. I don't know how a few traps can make it feel like a completely different game. Hell Act 3 in Diablo 2 was a giant fucking maze. I'd love to see how you all would bitch about that being added into the game.

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Telzen wrote:

If you think the Labyrinth is anything like those games then you have some serious issues.

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Char1983 wrote:

The lab is closer to Frogger or Tomb Raider than to Diablo2? Lol. Uhm, hint: It isn't. I am currently running around in it, it is 3/4 mowing mobs and 1/4 traps. It is mostly so much traps because I run a CI character. For non-CI it is more like 90% mobs and running around and 10% traps.

For the willingly ignorant aka white knights check the spoilers (if you are particularly lazy check the second and third spoilers only for your answer)











Now that you seen the video documents please have the honour of putting that turd of an argument aside, go back to white knights headquarters and find a new reality-defying argument to make fool of yourselves. Please and thank you

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Char1983 wrote:

So you really believe the lab is closer to Tomb Raider than to Diablo2?

Labyrinth game play is closer to Prince of Persia than to Diablo 2.

I don't know Prince of Persia, that is why I asked about Tomb Raider, which you also mentioned.

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Regulator wrote:

Now that you seen the video documents please have the honour of putting that turd of an argument aside, go back to white knights headquarters and find a new reality-defying argument to make fool of yourselves. Please and thank you

I've looked a bit at your post, but cannot quite see what you are saying. I mean, basically you are saying "I don't like it" right? Do you now think Lab is closer to Tomb Raider than to D2?

Anyways, I cannot find anything wrong with for example the fact that the traps negate points spent on armour. Makes it much easier to balance them, and make the lab an actual challenge (which it isn't really, for that the traps are too weak).

BTW, the fact that I like the labyrinth makes me about as much a white knight as not liking it makes you The Dark Knight.

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Regulator wrote:

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Telzen wrote:

The labyrinth is just a dungeon with traps. And yep dungeons don't go in ARPGs right? Oh wait. I don't know how a few traps can make it feel like a completely different game. Hell Act 3 in Diablo 2 was a giant fucking maze. I'd love to see how you all would bitch about that being added into the game.

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Telzen wrote:

If you think the Labyrinth is anything like those games then you have some serious issues.

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Char1983 wrote:

The lab is closer to Frogger or Tomb Raider than to Diablo2? Lol. Uhm, hint: It isn't. I am currently running around in it, it is 3/4 mowing mobs and 1/4 traps. It is mostly so much traps because I run a CI character. For non-CI it is more like 90% mobs and running around and 10% traps.

For the willingly ignorant aka white knights check the spoilers (if you are particularly lazy check the second and third spoilers only for your answer)

Spoiler

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Regulator wrote:

For starters its the first time in an expansion that GGG gated such content. With "such" i mean immaterial content aka the ascendancy points that feel way too important, personal and flavourful for character customization. After all this is an ARPG game where min-maxing and character creation/optimization matter a ton.

Path of Exile wiki - All the information about every expansion so far, in short, GGG has released 4 expansions so far

Sacrifice of the Vaal - Atziri gated items
Forsaken Masters - Masters gated item customization mechanic (crafts)
The Awakening - added Jewel sockets in the tree FOR EVERYONE, new CORE content, Lockstep
Ascendancy - Lab gated item customization mechanic (enchants), gated items (uniques + treasure chest), gated ASCEDANCY POINTS

Spoiler

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Regulator wrote:

Even though gating is a dick move, its sometimes needed to make something feel more important. What is the problem though here is that GGG decided that the gate is a completely different game inside PoE. A series and combination of 80' arcade games with 90' action-adventure, aka Indiana Jones meet PoE meet Contra. This has the negative effect of alienating many players who feel excluded from this expansion because they do not find that - obviously different - playstyle fun and/or engaging. PoE can have experimental content, thats fine from and for everyone, but gating something so important behind that is a dumb move from the company

Indiana Jones : Spike Trap
2:50:00 - Lava Floor
3:34:00 - Puzzle to progress
3:58:35 - Spike Trap
3:58:50 - Another Trap


Prince of Persian : Guillotine Trap(not currently in PoE)
10:23 - Timed Cranks
15:44 - Timed Cranks + Spike Traps
25:03 - Using Leap Slam to pass over Spike Traps

Go and check in each video the timestamps. The links might not work correctly but the timestamps are ok

Spoiler

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Regulator wrote:

Guess what? there is more. GGG labeled the labyrinth as hard, difficult, skill-based content that will prove to be an alternate end-game. Well they couldnt be more wrong. First of all there is no difficulty issue whatsover, maybe some feel izaro is overtuned for his level but thats easily countered with overleveling or knowing the game mechanics. Second the only skill that someone needs, is to know how to press quicksilver pots or use movement skills. Wait, see pattern of the trap, quicksilver pull lever, and level cleared (just like playing hardcore mario).

Path of Exile: Ascendancy (News Coverage)
You can check every video or article there to see the valitidy of my claims. If you do not have the time to do so, here are some quotes. Take into account how these quotes support also the previous truth.

"The Labyrinth is assembled as if it were a Roguelike game, Wilson said. According to Wilson, each Labyrinth run should take about 45 minutes to an hour"

"Path of Exile's free new Ascendancy expansion looks roguelike-like"

"The Labyrinth leans heavily on the new traps, with complicated patterns that remind me as much of Prince of Persia: Sands of Time"

"The labyrinth is a marathon of horrors, as players will need to set aside an average of 45-60 minutes to complete it. This will be one of the first additions that will introduce roguelike elements to Path of Exile"

Those were the initial estimations, but since you can fucking cheese your way through with quickisilvers, movement speed on gear and movement skills the time has gone down by a lot, to the point where people claim to do lab runs in under five minutes.

Spoiler

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Regulator wrote:

But it gets worse. In a game like PoE where the skill tree and character creation is the main attraction surely people's choices must be (and are) very important. Well... labyrinth and especially traps say FUCK YOUR CHOICES, if x person used 50points on his basic skill tree to get hp and armour while y player used 20 points for hp and armour, regarding traps the person with the less hp has actually an easier time in case he gets hit by a trap. WHAT???? How is that possible you may ask, well its easy, healing pots restore higher percentage to the player with the less flat hp pool. Yeah that happens, and its even worse for certain hybrid or pure ES characters. Ofcourse one's players damage and movement choices are unaffected by the labyrinth. So traps ignore and negate specific mechanics while they allow others to trivilize them.So yeah very well thought and fair system.. not.

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Vipermagi wrote:

Trap Damage is relative to your HP/ES, similar to Righteous Fire. No matter how much HP you have, standing in the middle of a trap like a doofus will get you killed in no time.

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Vipermagi wrote:

Worth noting: most traps seem to deal Damage over Time, dealing more Damage the closer you are to the center of it.

I couldnt find more info on the matter (since you know GGG likes to keep things hidden) but those two quotes from the master Vipermagi are more than enough. Basically since most traps deal percentage damage over time, every skill point on the tree that is spend on armour,evasion,dodge,block, HP, ES, endurance charges is rendered COMPLETELY USELESS. In contrary every movement speed node, damage node, HP regeneration node are not in any way affected.

Spoiler

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Regulator wrote:

Its pretty obvious that the labyrinth is dividing the community and for a lot of right reasons. If we take into account PoE's notorius performance issues the matter gets even worse.

That is not an argument directly for labyrinth but for the game in general, and since it happens that the mechanics of the lab are unforgiving it had to be mentioned. I do not believe anyone has anything to say against it. Recent news announcements and how they try to improve the game's performance is enough of evidence that the game sucks on that department.

Now that you seen the video documents please have the honour of putting that turd of an argument aside, go back to white knights headquarters and find a new reality-defying argument to make fool of yourselves. Please and thank you

Hmm I got it. So going by Regulator logic Tomb Raider is a roguelike, sounds legit.

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Char1983 wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

Now that you seen the video documents please have the honour of putting that turd of an argument aside, go back to white knights headquarters and find a new reality-defying argument to make fool of yourselves. Please and thank you

I've looked a bit at your post, but cannot quite see what you are saying. I mean, basically you are saying "I don't like it" right? Do you now think Lab is closer to Tomb Raider than to D2?

Anyways, I cannot find anything wrong with for example the fact that the traps negate points spent on armour. Makes it much easier to balance them, and make the lab an actual challenge (which it isn't really, for that the traps are too weak).

BTW, the fact that I like the labyrinth makes me about as much a white knight as not liking it makes you The Dark Knight.

Fuck there goes my disguise. Now everyone knows im BATMAN


Serious : In the previous post in the second spoiler i have links to two different videos (please check the videos and the timestamps ive put in the spoiler), both videos show how labyrinth's playstyle and the traps are a copy paste from older games in that case these games are Indiana Jones and Prince of Persia, im sure you can see the similarities in the arcade gameplay. That is obvious to everybody if they check the videos. If you also happen to check the third spoiler (again in the same post as before) you can see how critics from various magazines and game sites compare labyrinth's playstyle to rogue-alikes or straight up prince of persia. The point of that post is to shut up everyone saying that lab doesnt have any similarities with those games mentioned, i thought it was obvious but i took the time to help you further.

I hate the fact that ascendancy points are gated behind the labyrinth. The labyrinth itself would be completely indifferent and meaningless to me if AC were not linked with it. Thats why im supporting that the labyrinth stays as it is but without the AC behind it. Hope you get my point here too.

Liking the labyrinth does not make you a white knight, it makes you a human with opinion, it makes you a human that likes to have fun. White knight is the person who defends something out of compassion or emotion, without any drop of logic and nonsensical arguments or no arguments at all. And thats why the 90% of people defending the lab as it is belong to that order, because (and i mean it) they have provided absolutely ZERO points to why things should remain as they are.

Ill call Alfred to pick me up, the batmobile run out of gas.

Removing Ascendancy from the lab would change it significantly. It is a check of your build and your skill as a player. If you can do it, you get rewarded. If you can't or don't want to, you don't. I don't like Cruel being locked behind Act4 either, but yeah, it is just the way it is.

And yes, there are arguments for having the points locked behind the lab. Namely that a game should require skill to complete, and the lab is the first piece of content since Atziri that actually requires skill and not just trading and following a build guide (Atziri can be trivialized, too, though). There are some bosses that require skill as well (by now, I actually like Malformation Piety, though I hate that she still lags badly, and the fact that the room is cluttered with shit that makes using movement skills unreliable), but you can just skip those and still get to level 100 by following a build guide and grinding mindlessly.