Labyrinth,the worst content ever made in POE?

Your missing the point sid, no one cares if it takes you 5mins or 5hours. There are better puzzle games to play than the lab in poe.

"i can facetank Izaro" + "it is called skill"

Lmao, keep tooting your own horn buddy

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I recall some of GGG's patch notes saying that they rebalanced some of the higher-level content to ACCOUNT for the power of ascendancies... If they did that, it automatically makes ascending mandatory because it's "assumed by the devs." It goes into the same category as "upgrading your gear."

You should read them instead of recalling them. There is mostly bugfixes and 2.2. didn't add any difficulty, besides some nerfs to poison and dagger crit, which might make some chars weaker.

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However, if you're CI? Well, I'm not sure that's a good lesson those traps teach... "Your build is worthless because you can't pop life flasks."

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Emphasy/characters

Look, there is a CI character, its that occultist and guess what... traps are a non-issue. You can stand still on most of them, since they don't kill you with one pass and until they hit you again you recover your ES anyway. CI is actually easier than Life, since you don't have to push any annoying buttons just run through those traps.

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"Forcing the players to learn irrelevant stuff" is not a very good gameplay reason to include content in a game.

The traps teach you Observation and Patience. Both valuable lessons. You know it when you die to twinned Alira due to hugging a dead body while collecting loot.

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It's enough that at least 50% (GGG's words, not mine) are very unhappy, and are considering never making a new character again, plus the fraction of those that have already quit over it.

No those are your words. Unless you can actually proof something with a citation. But I can actually help you with that.

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We also have players who have disliked it. I'm not sure of the exact breakdown, but it certainly is enough in each camp that it feels too close to call in either direction. I haven't seen many neutral opinions about it.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1622774/filter-account-type/staff

That's from Qarl, and thats how this is done right. However there is also another interesting point. People spent half as much time in the labyrinth compared to maps. Which is a good stat, considering the labyrinth is basically just one farming area and not really suited for leveling, due to the low level.

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And guess what? Ascendancies made them stronger, a LOT stronger. And monsters were apparently made stronger as well.

No, they weren't. This time I won't quote all the patch notes that do not have any buffs to monsters and let you come up with the one that does. Oh wait... yes they readded the Guardian of the Mound back and it is totally completly impossible to get past him without your ascendancy... right, totally forgot that.

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Try facing traps without a life+regen-based char like you used for speedrunning to "prove" it was easy. Better yet, try CI and see how quickly you can pass those traps.

I would borrow him my trapper, but I guess he has his own CI char. I would like to record a run for you but having recording software running while playing PoE might make the labyrinth actually challanging. The fun thing about CI... Izaro is a joke, since he just doesn't hit too hard and you are not limited by flask charges. My Life based chars with their 5% life regen have to run around for quite a while if they get hit :P.

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Traps doing percentile damage creates the warped inconsistency where it gets HARDER if you improve your character. Add more life? Then flasks are that much less effective.

Well that's if you actually need flasks. Walking a straight path is also harder than walking downhill... it still isn't hard. I can totally understand people that say the lab isn't fun. That happens in games, and I would understand and agree if all ascendancies could be done in merciless at once, so if you don't like it you just do it once and be done with it. However the argument that it is hard is completly out of grasp for me. I don't have a terrible good connection (well it's WLAN with a total of 3 walls to cross over right now :P), but it doesn't really make any difference in the lab. It kills me during malachai fights or while doing some map bosses, but traps are no issue, since they are not dealing as much damage as most endgame bosses. If I have a short lag spike during Atziri I might be dead, but a trap just passes through me or the spikes hit me and thats it, only the poison darts and even more so the burning ground is troublesome.

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Ceri wrote:

That you (and others) enjoy it and find it thrilling, that's great. And I mean that, good for you. Now, if the Lab truly was optional content then all would be well. Decoupling Ascendancy points would accomplish that, and we could all be friends again. It's that simple, really. And please don't reboot that tired debate whether ascending is optional or not, just don't.

Well the issue is that the ascendancies wouldn't feel meaningful if there wouldn't be some challange involved getting them. And the labyrinth seems like a better spot than some random side quest to do that. And I don't really understand why traps are such a big issue, they are such a tiny part of the labyrinth. Most of the labyrinth is killing stuff, just like PoE. Most outside areas have no required trap-segments (there are some poison darts or some sawblades, but not more than in D3 and mostly you can just ignore them). There are 2-3 trap segments per run that actually have to be passed. Sometimes more but since you don't need many runs it is often quite easy to just look up the current layout and do it, exspecially since often the shortcuts are also made public. So I just can't understand why it is too much to do it 3 times and I would honestly agree if you only have to do merc to get all ascendancy points, since if you did it there, normal and cruel are even easier (well not at their level, I feel they are harder than merciless, but once being in merciless they are far easier).

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Chadwixx wrote:

Your missing the point sid, no one cares if it takes you 5mins or 5hours. There are better puzzle games to play than the lab in poe.

"i can facetank Izaro" + "it is called skill"

Lmao, keep tooting your own horn buddy

Not even a puzzle, pretty much no change compared to regular content if you overlevel/overgear the lab runs in each difficulty.
You'll storm through them in 15 minutes, ascending and collecting enchants.

That's under 1 hour of total playtime for powerful bonuses.

If you can't manage that then you don't even need those bonuses, you'll be just fine without them. Which makes it a fully optional content.



EDIT:
To add my experience with labyrinth... I have no clue about fight mechanics with Izaro. I have no idea how to make the fight easier/stronger. Sometimes I get 1 treasure key, most of the time I get 3.
Never bothered with actually knowing anything about the labyrinth because I don't like trap-like scenarios in general.

But instead of pointlessly whining about it, I've overleveled and I've made this a breeze, because I wanted it that way.

Guys that enjoy this whole concept are having fun, and I'm sure as hell having fun with my Ascendancy class (enchants not so much for obvious reasons :P) and its bonuses which I got for almost no effort at all.

lvl 91 currently in pernadus HC, i did lab on normal diff at lvl 65, and that was my first and last lab done in POE. 2 Lag spikes, 2 times i was on 10%......from fucking traps......barely stayed alive.....

Lab was by far the worst thing that ever happen to POE, and there were quite a few bad decisions to choose from. Nothing comes even close to lab.

It's like adding pokemon battles in FIFA. Just plain wrong.

Whole perandus league is terrible, shav going for 1.5 ex on HC after less then 10 days, mjolner 20c, you can buy best gear in game for few ex......nothing have value......

On third day of the league people had headhunter, shav and kaom in their stash....single person......yes, they play a lot, but what kind of the game is that where you can gear yourself with best possible items in game in 3 days......

"Hey guys, you can play new temp leagues with fresh economy".......yea, right

I understand, GGG is doing this only for money.....they have the numbers....if going full casual mode brings them more money, then yea, they will do it, they will abandon their principles like every company on expense of profit, nothing new there......as i said, i understand it, but i dont have to like it.....and i dont

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Telzen wrote:

There are those of us who like it, not everyone hates it.

It's a love/hate thing. When Izaro kills me, I hate the Labyrinth. When I kill Izaro, it feels SO GOOD. Seriously, I can't remember the last time killing a single boss in a game provided this strong a feeling of satisfaction. If you're trying to farm the Labyrinth, then you'll probably hate it, because it's simply too time-consuming for that, but as a way to challenge yourself, on occasion? I love it.

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ACGIFT wrote:

However, if you're CI? Well, I'm not sure that's a good lesson those traps teach... "Your build is worthless because you can't pop life flasks."

behold the impossible:

CI run, no whirling blades, no tripple quicksilver and i even got lost once, 8:50 on my ~first contact with this char in about a week so forgive me the 'firepower', i was testing something and forgot to switch to 'damage'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyokZQD7_fw

so whats next?

the labyrinth is worse and no fun at all, play stupid traps and when you die, all over again. i allways liked POE a lot, but now i wondering if i better can look for some other game.....

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tinko92 wrote:

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Chadwixx wrote:

Your missing the point sid, no one cares if it takes you 5mins or 5hours. There are better puzzle games to play than the lab in poe.

"i can facetank Izaro" + "it is called skill"

Lmao, keep tooting your own horn buddy

Not even a puzzle, pretty much no change compared to regular content if you overlevel/overgear the lab runs in each difficulty.
You'll storm through them in 15 minutes, ascending and collecting enchants.

That's under 1 hour of total playtime for powerful bonuses.

If you can't manage that then you don't even need those bonuses, you'll be just fine without them. Which makes it a fully optional content.



EDIT:
To add my experience with labyrinth... I have no clue about fight mechanics with Izaro. I have no idea how to make the fight easier/stronger. Sometimes I get 1 treasure key, most of the time I get 3.
Never bothered with actually knowing anything about the labyrinth because I don't like trap-like scenarios in general.

But instead of pointlessly whining about it, I've overleveled and I've made this a breeze, because I wanted it that way.

Guys that enjoy this whole concept are having fun, and I'm sure as hell having fun with my Ascendancy class (enchants not so much for obvious reasons :P) and its bonuses which I got for almost no effort at all.

I did the same thing, my asd class needs to be fixed though (sabatuer). My witches, ranger and scion are good though.

It makes me a little pissed, when people act all horny and mighty when they do trivial lab run and base arguments on it.

Maybe it's just me, but that wasn't a hard lab. If people whine on that easier difficulty level of lab, I can understand debate, but, but some days lab gets especially trappy with 2-3 screens of no safe zone traps and silly amounts of darts, then it gets really ugly for ci and low life.


To make it clear for everyone, i suggest to point out situations what we are talking about, so there won't be vain discussions.

Mandatory is defined by being *required* to do something. You are not *required* to do the Labyrinth. Yes, it's stuff you want. No, you don't have to do it. Nothing about the game changed from before the Labyrinth. It's still the same game people were steamrolling. You want good stuff? Pay the price. Saying it's "mandatory" is disingenuous and a fallacy when the top HC runners ignored it and kept high on the ladder just fine.

You can not like it all you want, but until they buff monsters or nerf characters because of it, it's absolutely optional content - you don't have to do it to complete all content, and it really trivializes a lot of content to have that power. It's new, and it's different. Grow up and get over it.

I've been playing since beta, and no, I don't like how hard it is; regen and speed are king, and if you're vaal pact or energy shield, you're pretty screwed - low-life even more so, one trap nearly kills you, multitraps are outright death, but guess what - it's here to stay. I'd argue for some nerfs to Izaro in normal/cruel, just like Malachai, and damage should be based on life alone - like everything else in this game, basically, which only considers life and not es, which would be a fair balance for ES characters currently screwed by % life AND es (bug?); but I'm also a proponent of it staying.

Most of you who complain are complaining about a couple runs. It's hard. It's new. You don't like change because we're glorified primates. Good for you. Once you get your ascendencies, suddenly all the pressure is gone, and I've gone from hating it, to loving it. It's that "hardcore" feel in softcore, where it's OK if you die, and in hardcore, some of the scariest stuff out there.

Good.