Labyrinth,the worst content ever made in POE?

I don't like Act 4. I could also refuse to play it, but yeah, GGG chose to make it part of the game, so I just do it. It is annoying for me, but whatever. And Act4 takes longer than the lab.

As for the lab, either just do it once and be done with it, or pay someone to do it for you. Not that expensive, actually.

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Char1983 wrote:

I don't like Act 4. I could also refuse to play it, but yeah, GGG chose to make it part of the game, so I just do it. It is annoying for me, but whatever. And Act4 takes longer than the lab.

As for the lab, either just do it once and be done with it, or pay someone to do it for you. Not that expensive, actually.

....3 times per character you create. Not counting runs for X enchantments

Three times per character is still less time than Act4 two times. Enchantments you can either ignore or buy. Just like you buy everything else in this game that you are not willing to acquire yourself (vendoring rares for Alts, Chaos recipe, Sac fragment farming, Uber fragment farming, Chisel recipe, 5links, 6links, Divination cards, ...) or too unlucky to have drop.

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Char1983 wrote:

I don't like Act 4. I could also refuse to play it, but yeah, GGG chose to make it part of the game, so I just do it. It is annoying for me, but whatever. And Act4 takes longer than the lab..

What you're making here is a statement of INCREDIBLY false equivalence.

Act 4 is more content of the same gameplay. There is no fundamental difference between it and Acts 1-3.

The Labyrinth throws in a whole new game that isn't really what PoE has been about, and also handles absolutely terrible with PoE's point-and-click interface.

So that's why your QQ'ing over Act 4 is silly, but issues with the labyrinth are valid.

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Char1983 wrote:

Three times per character is still less time than Act4 two times.

Well, except that Act 4 never randomly lagged out and disconnected me, forcing me to repeat the entirety of it from the beginning. Nor has Malachai ever randomly given a lagspike so he could land a one-shot on my character (with a tweaked build and mutli-exalt gear better than >99% of all players ever touch, and no that is not an exaggeration) that was >20 levels above him.

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ACGIFT wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

I don't like Act 4. I could also refuse to play it, but yeah, GGG chose to make it part of the game, so I just do it. It is annoying for me, but whatever. And Act4 takes longer than the lab..

What you're making here is a statement of INCREDIBLY false equivalence.

Act 4 is more content of the same gameplay. There is no fundamental difference between it and Acts 1-3.

The Labyrinth throws in a whole new game that isn't really what PoE has been about, and also handles absolutely terrible with PoE's point-and-click interface.

So that's why your QQ'ing over Act 4 is silly, but issues with the labyrinth are valid.

"

Char1983 wrote:

Three times per character is still less time than Act4 two times.

Well, except that Act 4 never randomly lagged out and disconnected me, forcing me to repeat the entirety of it from the beginning. Nor has Malachai ever randomly given a lagspike so he could land a one-shot on my character (with a tweaked build and mutli-exalt gear better than >99% of all players ever touch, and no that is not an exaggeration) that was >20 levels above him.

what is so 'whole new gamish' about the lab? you kill monsters, you get loot, your efficiency matters, you are rewarded for navigating maps well (if you 'get lost' in lab - do not enter non-Gorge maps)

what is a real difference:
- no chicken out support
- no easy way out
- no tp to safety
- no right click gameplay
- traps that make one think for a brief second but ALL are 100% avoidable and do not require any puzzles/riddles nor degree in science

people complain about 5th but it is the first 4 that hurt them a lot - because now they have to build more balanced builds, learn how to play, cannot bruteforce everything with 1mil dps

it is them that are tested, not their traded gear on a copypasted character. failures hurt

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ACGIFT wrote:

The Labyrinth throws in a whole new game that isn't really what PoE has been about

Seems like now it is, cause GGG decided that POE is about that.

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ACGIFT wrote:

So that's why your QQ'ing over Act 4 is silly, but issues with the labyrinth are valid.

Uhm - why? I don't like Act4 (for reasons), you don't like the labyrinth (for other reasons), you are right and I am wrong? I don't get it, honestly.

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ACGIFT wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

Three times per character is still less time than Act4 two times.

Well, except that Act 4 never randomly lagged out and disconnected me, forcing me to repeat the entirety of it from the beginning. Nor has Malachai ever randomly given a lagspike so he could land a one-shot on my character

Yeah, Malachai has both lagged me out and lag-oneshot me. He isn't the worst part about Act4, though.


EDIT: About the gear - as I said before, the lab tests your skill in handling your character, not only about how well you can make a build (or follow a build guide).

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sidtherat wrote:

what is a real difference:
- no chicken out support
- no easy way out
- no tp to safety
- no right click gameplay
- traps that make one think for a brief second but ALL are 100% avoidable and do not require any puzzles/riddles nor degree in science

people complain about 5th but it is the first 4 that hurt them a lot - because now they have to build more balanced builds, learn how to play, cannot bruteforce everything with 1mil dps

it is them that are tested, not their traded gear on a copypasted character. failures hurt

What you said is purely false. #5 is very much the issue here, and you're just straw-manning it onto the other 4. You also ENTIRELY skip the point:

Path of Exile uses a point-and-click interface system that has historically shown itself to be very, very, VERY bad at handling action-platform-style gameplay.

The system works GREAT for tactical combat, but the big problem is that an entirely incompatible form of gameplay (weaving in and out of narrow safety zones and pathways with precision) being shoehorned in.

And guess what? Your build doesn't really do jack shit for the traps. Sure, there's a FEW things that are favored, but you can't just build around them, either: it's content that's vastly different from the remaining 99% of the game, so it's kind of silly to gimp yourself for the REAL game outside the labyrinth, (Atziri, maps, etc) in exchange for being able to do labyrinth better. I mean, we don't have specialized "Atziri builds" that can't handle a red-tier map as a consequence.

You also massively overestimate how much of an advantage build-copying grants. I'd probably wager that, as with a lot of players, that assumption just comes from a lack of experience in build-making.

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Char1983 wrote:

Seems like now it is, cause GGG decided that POE is about that.

Funny that; last I checked the endgame was still not level 66 at all, but instead a bunch of maps of levels 79-82, as well as Uber Atziri. If the game was actually about that, they'd have removed, y'know, the 99% of the game that's NOT the labyrinth, just sayin'?

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ACGIFT wrote:

Uhm - why? I don't like Act4 (for reasons), you don't like the labyrinth (for other reasons), you are right and I am wrong? I don't get it, honestly.

You're missing the key question, of VALIDITY.

The issues with the labyrinth are a valid complaint because the gameplay doesn't mesh at all with the rest of the game.

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ACGIFT wrote:

Yeah, Malachai has both lagged me out and lag-oneshot me. He isn't the worst part about Act4, though.

Then that's your own issue, because Malachai doesn't run poorly for the vast majority of players, and can't oneshot you unless your build actually sucks that bad, because his damage is WELL below Izaro's, in spite of having 5/2/2 levels on him.

Also notice that you never got a disconnect at Malachai and then get told that you had to start over at The Aqueducts. (Yes, disconnects in the labyrinth are a FAR from rare occurrence)

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ACGIFT wrote:

EDIT: About the gear - as I said before, the lab tests your skill in handling your character, not only about how well you can make a build (or follow a build guide).

None of my builds were from guides; I created them all myself.

And I'm pretty sure I can handle my players far better than most players in the game. (Breezing through Flashback and Talisman should be a testament to that) It's not even like I use mirrored gear or anything; it's well within farmable range, yet I can safely and consistently do whatever high tier of maps RNG has decided I can sustain on that day, (be it 10, 15, or whatever) getting full clears in 5 minutes just about regardless of the mods. And no matter what someone may say... No, that can't be done on ANY build with just a "hold right-click." (at least after the nerfs in 2.0 to Flicker Strike and in 2.2 to Vaal Spark)

It boils down to a pretty short list of TECHNICAL issues:

• The control scheme is absolute garbage for dodging stuff. I can play Touhou and Cave danmaku just fine, (look those up on Youtube if you don't know what those are) but point-and-click simply lacks the responsiveness necessary to always dodge stuff.
  
  
• Making matters worse, visibility in many of the zones is really, really bad. While some degree of memorizing the EXACT sort of specific trap layouts can help a bit, often it's hard to tell exactly what's going to be where, so you're forced to dash past one trap and into the next, fully blind. I've jacked up the brightness and contrast WELL beyond what was necessary to see in any other zone/map in the game and it still isn't enough.
  
  
• The trap design is very disproportionate across what builds it hits. ES-based builds, especially CI, are badly hit, wile builds with high movespeed, as well as high-life-regen ones, can largely ignore the traps. (I've ascended 5 very different builds so far, which is probably more than almost all players have bothered with yet)
  
  
• Izaro is definitely over-tuned, even just looking at his datamined stats. He doesn't bring any new AI to the table, (he's literally Voll for half of his moves) and makes up for it with having bit too much damage, and SEVERAL TIMES too much life. To top it all off, almost no one can play it without random stutters given how badly-optimized that scene/the engines in general are.
  
  
• Topping that all off is the lack of server stability and disconnects. Server-side hiccups are frequent, (where the server freezes for a second, but your client still has perfect ping and no drop from 60 FPS) and COMPLETELY throw off your control. You can't be expected to react to traps and attacks well if you can't even be sure when your input will do anything, and when it won't... And then there's the disconnects. It's one thing to say "you must've messed up and gotten yourself killed," but the only way you could criticize the player for falling victim to a serverside DC is to suggest that PoE isn't worth playing at all.

The thread subject line is correct, at least from my perspective. The Labyrinth is far and away the worst content ever made in POE. This is true for many reasons, as listed above. I've played the labyrinth and it is a completely different game play from the fantastic PoE game play that we were used to. The labyrinth is boring tedious and not fun. Of course I only played labyrinth twice for about 15 minutes each time. But, those two episodes were so uninteresting and boring that after my inventory was filled up and I ran in a big circle or two I could no longer punish myself further and portaled out of the boring nonsense. PoE game play was fanatastic. Labyrinth game play is horrible. To put my opinion into the proper context, I have always hated Prince of Persia and Mario type games which is what the labyrinth is.

The labyrinth is okay. The major problems are the rewards randomness and trap damage being percentage based. I currently play a hybrid and get destroyed. I think the rewards are fine but we should be able to choose what rewards we get. (pick one out of 3 randomly selected enchants or what colour of skill gem enchant we want)

There is nothing fun about doing the labyrinth 10 times and all I have to show for it is this:

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paraspam wrote:

There is nothing fun about doing the labyrinth 10 times and all I have to show for it is this:

only 10?
needed like 100 to get this, was doing corrupted shrine 4 key challenge run anyway.


PS doublechecked at former thc char. full trial per difficulty run takes 10 min.
so 3 trial runs take 30 min.
you cant do prerequisites that are 30 min worth?
sad.