The labyrinth is both boring and frustrating

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Is it possible to dual log in in Standard and take both your characters into the Lab? If so, I'll just do that and use my high level character to carry my new characters and get all my points as soon as available.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

It's more fun to get those points while levelling asap instead of waiting till near endgame.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Corrivati wrote:

You act like "I'm right! Why? I just am!".

You really gonna go there after saying this:

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Corrivati wrote:

Stuff like that does no harm to me ... I've played HC for years here.

LOL ok...

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Corrivati wrote:

That argument about "not everyone plays HC viable build" is a pure golden LOL!

It's not an argument, it's a fact. While progressing through the acts, you will occasionally come across something that can one or two shot you and they require manual dodging. It's no different than the trap mechanics. Traps just introduce the damage in a different, more predictable way.

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Corrivati wrote:

Traps are different mechanic, because you can't negate its damage.

You negate it by not getting hit, it's simple. Don't run through them blindly like a moron and you won't have any problems. You don't go stand next to a diamond shrine surrounded by a pack of Powerful Crit mobs waiting to get hit do you? The same mechanic applies here, avoid the hit.

It's so inanely easy to deal with I don't see how anyone, least of all a "HC pro", can bitch about them.

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Corrivati wrote:

Ppl like to play with low life nd armor and because something can one shot them, traps are fine. Dat logic...

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Corrivati wrote:

Even if u meet packs at diamond shrines, your stats, pots, ressists, skills can save you. You can even kill them before they kill you, lure them etc. At traps options are limited, mostly on timing.

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Corrivati wrote:

Insulting my gameplay sklil is easy. I remember ppl like you, pros all the time. So what, I've always sucked at arcade games. I admit that.

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Corrivati wrote:

Stuff like that does no harm to me ... I've played HC for years here.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Corrivati wrote:

Ppl like to play with low life nd armor and because something can one shot them, traps are fine. Dat logic...

You've missed my point entirely.

The point I was trying to make is simple. There have always been things in this game that require you to manually dodge them, traps are no different. In fact, they are easier to not die to than all the other things I've mentioned. You can see them coming and they have a set path so they are easily avoidable. The things I've mentioned previously just pop up and surprise you.

Traps are fine. Even playing as Mom/EB, which is something people say traps are unfairly biased against, it's more than doable. I also never claimed to be a "pro" either, in fact you can check my profile and see where I placed in the 4 race seasons I participated in. I'm mediocre at best and I'll happily admit that.

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Corrivati wrote:

Even if u meet packs at diamond shrines, your stats, pots, ressists, skills can save you. You can even kill them before they kill you, lure them etc. At traps options are limited, mostly on timing.

And traps don't even require any of that. You just have to not get hit which is stupidly easy.

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Corrivati wrote:

Insulting my gameplay sklil is easy. I remember ppl like you, pros all the time. So what, I've always sucked at arcade games. I admit that.

I'm not insulting your playstyle. Just remember, you're the one who jumped in and countered my argument with this:

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Corrivati wrote:

Stuff like that does no harm to me ... I've played HC for years here.

You're the self proclaimed HC veteran that can deal with anything, so you of all people should know that once you die to something you find a way to not die like that again.

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Char1983 wrote:

As for the "skipping content gets rewarded" - have you ever seen a racer play? In Act 4, skipping content gets similarly rewarded. Ignore everything that isn't mandatory, and there you go. In fact, skipping content gets rewarded everywhere in this game but in maps.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

The Labyrinth is the one area of the game where you are most rewarded for skipping content instead of playing content.

This alone speaks volumes, because it reveals some of the design principles behind the labyrinth: Namely, to gate content rather than to add content.

This particular design principle is popular among makers of MMORPGs, where keeping players chasing a carrot as long as possible is the best way to maximize profits. So they create all these time-consuming "chores" to waste the player's time and keep them playing and paying for as long as possible.

<snip>

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Care to elaborate on your counterpoint? Exactly what "rewards" are you referring to "everywhere in the game?"

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gibbousmoon wrote:

1. Drops on the way to Malachai (or any other boss in the game) are often as good as those dropped by the boss.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

2. The route to Malachai (or any other boss in the game) is less dangerous, and even if you do die on the way, you only lose a couple of minutes.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Put simply, farming Malachai or any other boss in the game is not at all comparable to the labyrinth's "zip through trash content with very little reward as fast as possible to reach the pinata at the end, repeat ad nauseam" quality.

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Char1983 wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Care to elaborate on your counterpoint? Exactly what "rewards" are you referring to "everywhere in the game?"

The only reward Malachai gives is that you can go to the next difficulty (on Merciless, he essentially doesn't give a reward except for some gems I think).

That reward (and also the gems, btw) are given out regardless of whether you rush there or you take it slowly.

Izaro gives ascendancy points and enchantments. Those are given out regardless of whether you rush there or not.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

1. Drops on the way to Malachai (or any other boss in the game) are often as good as those dropped by the boss.

Drops? Who cares about those? You will get better drops from act 1 on the next difficulty, and it will be easier, too. The only zones where I personally care about drops is maps, because of map drops, which is why I fully clear them. In all other cases, most people will try to advance as quickly as possible, because higher-level zones also give more XP and better drops. Or why exactly are you killing Malachai? For the drops?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

2. The route to Malachai (or any other boss in the game) is less dangerous, and even if you do die on the way, you only lose a couple of minutes.

Yes, and playing the lab slow will make it less likely to die. So rushing actually puts you in danger. If we do not consider the technical problems for a moment.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Put simply, farming Malachai or any other boss in the game is not at all comparable to the labyrinth's "zip through trash content with very little reward as fast as possible to reach the pinata at the end, repeat ad nauseam" quality.

Do you actually know anyone who farms Malachai? You kill Malachai to get to the next difficulty. You kill Izaro to get your Ascendancy points. Same thing. Izaro farming for enchants - of course, going as fast as possible is best. You've ever seen anyone doing serious Dominus farming? Same thing: Skip as much as possible, once there, port in 6 people and MF-cull him.

The only difference is that you have to restart when you die. If you farm for enchants, you probably are good enough to not die anyways.