The labyrinth is both boring and frustrating

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Turtledove wrote:

You mean the ground effects like fire, lightning, cold, etc.? Those don't change the fundamental game play, the feel of the game, at least not for me.

Neither does the laby.

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Turtledove wrote:

I've seen the same comment from many others.

Lemmings it is then...

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Turtledove wrote:

Act 4 game play is the same as the rest of PoE.

Not for me.

Also, did you know you can edit your posts? Would be much nicer than constantly double posting. :)

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Shovelcut wrote:

If you don't like the laby that's fine, but don't make it out to be something it's not. Saying it turns PoE into frogger is being a bit overly dramatic. The core gameplay was already there, it's just been turned up a notch or two. And that is perfectly fine considering how powerful the rewards are for completing the laby.

Turned up a notch or two???

*Your hero exile enters the dungeon in his hard earned godly gear, loaded with an arsenal of dreadful spells! He charges into hundreds of terrifying flame spitting monsters and blow them to pieces with his powerful magic. Around the corner, your hero accidentally steps on a couple of small spikes on the ground and dies in the split of a second...*

Not only turned up a notch or two, it's plain stupid and entirely different from the original core game play.

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lunshea wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

If you don't like the laby that's fine, but don't make it out to be something it's not. Saying it turns PoE into frogger is being a bit overly dramatic. The core gameplay was already there, it's just been turned up a notch or two. And that is perfectly fine considering how powerful the rewards are for completing the laby.

Turned up a notch or two???

*Your hero exile enters the dungeon in his hard earned godly gear, loaded with an arsenal of dreadful spells! He charges into hundreds of terrifying flame spitting monsters and blow them to pieces with his powerful magic. Around the corner, your hero accidentally steps on a couple of small spikes on the ground and dies in the split of a second...*

Not only turned up a notch or two, it's plain stupid and entirely different from the original core game play.

That pretty much describes my first run through the laby with an EB/MoM char. Thanks for the chuckle though. :D

That also pretty much describes any area in the game when you get one-shotted. You either learn from your mistakes or you're doomed to repeat them over and over again.

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Shovelcut wrote:

Well I hate act 4 but you don't see me campaigning to get it removed or changed.

Do you really think that act 4 is like the labyrinth (any more than desecrated ground damage is like trap damage)? If you see little difference between the two --- and you're certainly entitled to your opinion --- then I guess you do. But for many people, including myself, they are very different kettles of fish. And one of them is rotten.

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ShaUrley wrote:

Do you really think that act 4 is like the labyrinth

Considering it's required to progress and I loathe it, yeah it's a pretty similar argument.

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ShaUrley wrote:

(any more than desecrated ground damage is like trap damage)?

Red-green colorblind here, desecrated ground kicks my ass unless I'm paying a lot of attention to my health pool or I'm using Steppan Eards. So again, yeah it's a pretty similar thing to me. Sure you might not have that issue but I can say the same for traps. :)

I dont mind the introduction of traps. It's meant to feel different and play different so of course it's not gonna please everybody. It sucks it especially affects people with bad connection but i dont think that makes it a bad mechanic because of that.
I find the gameplay it brings to be pretty interesting in the end, sure it takes some patience which is something a lot of PoE player might not be used to need but whatever. It's fun IMO.

I agree with a lot of the other points from OP though. The lab is frustrating and boring in several ways.

-Boredom
It comes from the fact that the seed is always the same. It's meant to allow player to learn the traps of the dungeon and get better chance at clearing it the more they try. The problem in that design is that... The lab itself is stupid easy and mobs are trash so it becomes just a chore to clear the over long lab with the same seed.

-Frustrating
almost one shot from izaro on my SF high hp/armor build marauder who can tank dominus ascendant in 20 secs feels like BS. Izaro feels like end act 4 difficulty, placed in a map of mid act 3 difficulty.

The combination of easy level with same seed & unfair death at a boss ( or trap + lag for some) gives a pretty bad experience. I dont think the issue is having the same seed, or traps ( if you're patient its really unlikely they'll kill you). If the lab had mobs same level as izaro, it would make for a more fun challenge to go through AND it would alarm the player that the boss will be dangerous. Right now the jump in difficulty is absolutely ridiculous. Either make izaro easier to match the lab and tone down the crazy loot at the end, OR make the lab clearly gradually increase in map level as you progress to show you how hard the next izaro battle will be. Give some interesting loot at the end of each izaro battle to reward players who made it to at least certain stages of the tower.

AND PLEASE: Increase the level cap for leaderboards. Right now the level cap only takes in account players with uberbuilds and who are not self found. As a self found player making up my own builds I can trash the main campaign easily with no deaths, yet Izaro was absolutely impossible at level 40 on normal. Or even at 44. Had to give up and go do act 4 to have a chance.

note: I personally love that you cant TP out, i wish you couldnt TP out of any boss battles in the main game and make it more about survival rather than constant pot refill.

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lunshea wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

If you don't like the laby that's fine, but don't make it out to be something it's not. Saying it turns PoE into frogger is being a bit overly dramatic. The core gameplay was already there, it's just been turned up a notch or two. And that is perfectly fine considering how powerful the rewards are for completing the laby.

Turned up a notch or two???

*Your hero exile enters the dungeon in his hard earned godly gear, loaded with an arsenal of dreadful spells! He charges into hundreds of terrifying flame spitting monsters and blow them to pieces with his powerful magic. Around the corner, your hero accidentally steps on a couple of small spikes on the ground and dies in the split of a second...*

Not only turned up a notch or two, it's plain stupid and entirely different from the original core game play.

GGG could've just introduced a penalty/gain from area/char lvel difference, so if normally traps do, say, 30% of max hp(+es), this number would have been reduced by 1% for each 4 points of level difference. So if my char is lv90 in level 30 lab then I could almost ignore traps, regardless of having or not having WB equiped. And conversely, if I ran some super build that can roflstomp cruel Izaro at lv45, I'd have to pay more attention to traps.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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ShaUrley wrote:

Do you really think that act 4 is like the labyrinth

Considering it's required to progress and I loathe it, yeah it's a pretty similar argument.

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ShaUrley wrote:

(any more than desecrated ground damage is like trap damage)?

Red-green colorblind here, desecrated ground kicks my ass unless I'm paying a lot of attention to my health pool or I'm using Steppan Eards. So again, yeah it's a pretty similar thing to me. Sure you might not have that issue but I can say the same for traps. :)

Different people can have different experiences even when doing the same thing. You don't consider labyrinth a different game play from the rest of PoE. A significant number of people people do. Neither is right or wrong, just different. Not everyone likes the taste of brussels sprouts. That doesn't mean that some people are right or wrong, only different. The argument about Act 4 is not the same thing. It is like saying, if you like steak then you have to like brussels sprouts. They may both be required to get to dessert but that doesn't make them the same thing.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

The issue with traps, at least for some people, is that it is a different game play that feels like a different game. A different genre of game that some people do not enjoy or do not want to experience when they are playing an ARPG.

I don't get it, to me it's no different than dodging a charging rhoa or an exiles flameblast. I don't see how it's different than pre-existing gameplay, we're already manually dodging shit...

Let me explain.

It's much different. Cause all those attack you mentioned you can negate with your stats, ressistance, eva, armor - everything works. Not against traps. My lvl 60 ES build died to normal Lab traps in two hits.

This is RPG ... stats, gear and build SHOULD make a difference.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

The way it is currently set up is that it's easier to run through the traps naked compared to using ES gear because of the percentage damage. Just take of your gear and use health potions and it will much easier going through traps than with ES. Poor design.

GGG has said that they will try to fix the ES problem with trap damage.