The Labyrinth is everything I dislike about games in one package.

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Head_Less wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

it took me 3 lab runs to realize that the only dangerous stuff is the poison dart stuff, all the rest you just run by and pot on your way out (CI / life/ES hybrids wont even need to pot)

When Is last time POE made you realize something interesting?

Most time since 1.xx you run and get hit but don t realize anything coz you can 1 shot everything before you get hurt. Then one day you are 1 shot and still don t understand why.

Lab made you think and anticipate new traps. Lab made you discover things are ok other are bad. Traps are 1 shot maybe but you know why they are.

Long time POE not made us anticipate anything. Since We used totems in corners to attract monsters the game did not gave us interesting and scary stories.

Maybe POE engine suck for traps but like mario bros we all enjoyed unfair but do-able challenges. Long time POE did not give such things.

speak for yourself, ok? making such assumptions and pretending these are facts and you know it all and understand it all is just rude

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sidtherat wrote:

speak for yourself, ok? making such assumptions and pretending these are facts and you know it all and understand it all is just rude

I don t want argue about you intelligence, it was not point of my post. I know you know things and done things and are smart. Just saying game surprise us again, it surprise you for at least 4 try until you find about poison darts.

Also

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sidtherat wrote:

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Charan, please...

deadly 'traps with precise timing'? or rather 'run through them and pot on the way out'. these traps are all but precise (poe engine does not support any kind of precision in the first place) and while they are deadly they are more irritating than captivating design

You do also assumption about knowing game engine and all. We all do.
Mine was assumption about other things. We all have opinion no need safe space we debate. I was not attacking you personally but your opinion. You gave your I gave mine, no personal attack just debate.

peace.

I haven't tried it yet, cause I'm playing league and I think I'll go through most of the game, before deciding the Ascendancy nodes. But it sounds like everything I feared the Lab will be. I dislike everything pointed out in the OP: a forced long (45min - 1h per run, seriously?) chore with dead playtime (backtracking, waiting, dead-ends).

Since I cant really comment on it right now, I'll just hope OP is exaggerating :)

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sidtherat wrote:

Charan, please...

deadly 'traps with precise timing'? or rather 'run through them and pot on the way out'. these traps are all but precise (poe engine does not support any kind of precision in the first place) and while they are deadly they are more irritating than captivating design

it took me 3 lab runs to realize that the only dangerous stuff is the poison dart stuff, all the rest you just run by and pot on your way out (CI / life/ES hybrids wont even need to pot)

If that were true we wouldn't be seeing these hilarious posts by high level players getting ganked by a single trap, sid.

Yes, I've been known to dash through and pot afterwards. Not often, but sometimes. And there have been times when it's seemed like there was no actual path through. But there always is.

And with lockstep in play, they can definitely do precise-timing based traps.

Edit: weird typo. Blame the tablet.

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morbo wrote:

I haven't tried it yet, cause I'm playing league and I think I'll go through most of the game, before deciding the Ascendancy nodes. But it sounds like everything I feared the Lab will be. I dislike everything pointed out in the OP: a forced long (45min - 1h per run, seriously?) chore with dead playtime (backtracking, waiting, dead-ends).

Since I cant really comment on it right now, I'll just hope OP is exaggerating :)

The OP is not exaggerating. Sorry.

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HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

Charan, please...

deadly 'traps with precise timing'? or rather 'run through them and pot on the way out'. these traps are all but precise (poe engine does not support any kind of precision in the first place) and while they are deadly they are more irritating than captivating design

it took me 3 lab runs to realize that the only dangerous stuff is the poison dart stuff, all the rest you just run by and pot on your way out (CI / life/ES hybrids wont even need to pot)

If that were true we wouldn't be seeing this hilarious posts by high level players getting ganked by a single trap, sid.

Yes, I've been known to dash through and pot afterwards. Not often, but sometimes. And there have been times when it's seemed like there was no actual path through. But there always is.

And with lockstep in play, they can definitely do precise-timing based traps.

after playing a bit more it boils down to this

- trap density matters. there are just SO MANY of them that instead of being intriguing they are just 'white traps' you want to skip on the way to the unique trap (Izaro - this fight is very interesting indeed)

this makes traps a tedium and set a scene for mass skipping and just not giving a damn. not a good sign when new and incredibly hyped content get TEDIOUS after less than 2 hours

- subtle-time-wasters (golden doors/keys) are.. just that - time wasters. not fun

- map layouts. there should be NO dead ends. the zones can be long or short, twisted or not, connected in funny shapes - but back tracking in labyrinth just sucks.

i managed to do merc one in under 9 minutes. with little knowledge about traps (i still do not know what half of the switches/levers do) and with basic understanding of what is happening.

but it is a content i already want to skip as soon as possible on the way to a) ascendancy points (mandatory) b) cool enchants. item rewards are dwarfed by map runs and the XP gain is pretty sad. if the layouts were better, traps more sparse but impactful and all this labyrinth wasnt just a time sink by design.. i might have enjoyed it more

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HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

I doubt it. The Labyrinth seems pretty balanced to me.

Doubt it all you want - I remember the SC and HC players alike begging GGG not to change the Malachai fight, and other aspects of act 4. They loved the danger and the difficulty. I also clearly remember the patch notes - that specific note in particular - reading something like:

"While we wanted Malachai to be a challenge, he is slaughtering a few too many exiles, we're nerfing him".

I suppose to be further constructive I could edit the OP to refelct what changes I'd make if my name were Chris Wilson.

FWIW I have softened my thinking on the topic to some degree because of this thread. You're right to say that broadly, the Labyrinth is consistent with PoE not being for casuals, and consistent with the idealized niche they [GGG] have claimed for themselves.

It's also right to say (I think it was someone else) that this is permanent power creep for your character, do we want it to be free?

No, I suppose not. But fortunately this issue isn't nearly that black and white - they will have data on how many people are attempting and succeeding at Ascending, and I'd bet that the number will be surprisingly low - on the 'succeeding' portion that is. I'd further imagine that they have a target number in mind for what % of their playerbase will have succeeded, and if it falls well short, will be improving (yes, I know you replaced that word with nerfing in your head) the overall Lab experience.

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HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

...Sometimes I forget not all PoE players are Diablo veterans...given D1 and D2 were basically nothing more than giant mazes populated with shit to kill and loot.

Except they were nothing when you look at length.
The labyrinth is far too long; I personally felt extremely fatigued going through it and died on Izario (who would have thought overtuned as expected) and am now questioning if I even want to play this league.

The labyrinth idea? Pretty solid.
But man they need to cut it's length by 1/3 if they seriously want people to play through them.

In fact just the thought of doing them on every character I have makes me want to put the game down for a long time and go play something that I find far less tedious.

I have to admit, my first impression of running the Labyrinth in Normal diff was very negative.

edit: and I missed out on trading my early vaal haste, twice, because you can't leave the thing.

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shaunus wrote:

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HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

In fact just the thought of doing them on every character I have makes me want to put the game down for a long time and go play something that I find far less tedious.

This. Gating Ascendancy points behind the labyrinth is going to generate a shit ton of negativity towards it. It definitely isn't my cup of tea, but I can tell a lot of time was put towards making it. For the folks that enjoy it, that's great. But it really, really, really fucking sucks to have to play through that content dozens of times to get Ascendancy points for the alts I actively play. I wish GGG would have left enchantments as the reward for the Labyrinth as I see (and I think others) see those as less mandatory than skill points. And then work those Ascendancy points into another aspect of the game somehow. As it is, one session of running the Labyrinth and repeatedly doing the incredibly lame Trials has pretty much already burnt me out on it. Oh well.