The Labyrinth is everything I dislike about games in one package.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

Your 500th post about the same topic just clutters the forum and adds an unnecessary amount of replies and time taken from devs reading other threads.

1,887 posts and roughly 85% are about the laby. The fucking irony! lmao

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Demonoz wrote:

My biggest gripe with the Lab is the Enchant System.

You could literally run the lab 1000+ times and STILL not see the Helm Enchant you need for your build. (Or Boot Enchant as well) And the glove enchants are kinda meh. Some are ok but none of them really go especially well with anything in particular really and should maybe be changed to something else. But that's not really as big of deal as Helm chants since there's just so many possible. There's multiple different ones for every single skill, aura, golem, minion, totem in the game.
They need to add something or someway you gain more chances at enchants especially in Uber lab since you need a key and ATM pretty much need the Prophecy to get 2 chances for each run already.

Something like give up 2 Treasure Keys to get an extra chance at chanting again. Or maybe a chest or two hidden somewhere in the lab that will give an item that gives more chances at enchants if you take the time you seek it out.

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sonicman wrote:

I think one of the biggest troubles with the labyrinth has less to do with labyrinth and more with an expectation of stability and network responsiveness.

In other words, if you are attempting to do something that is challenging, you really want to make sure that things outside your control such as lag and random disconnects do not mar your experience.

While a lot of that could do with individual connections/pc configs, I think GGG really needs to look at their hardware and software infrastructure carefully. I strongly believe that POE has more issues than most other games when it comes to lags and disconnects. Even watching various full-time streamers (with really good systems and internet connections) I often see lag.

I don't mind a challenge (even though I have previously made posts blankly asking for lab removal due to its difficulty and out-of-placeness, yes that is a word now) as much as I mind the discouragement one gets from failing a challenging task because the taskmaster screwed up.

Just my 2c

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innervation wrote:

And it's doubly frustrating because heretofore, PoE hasn't had any such mechanics.

1) Traps/Puzzles. I don't play PoE for traps and puzzles. Yes, I know there are plenty of successful cross genre games. Yes, I know WoW has Pokemon incorporated into it. I just happen to dislike puzzle games.

2) Standing, waiting, and watching isn't fun. PoE is an action game. I don't play OP meta builds, so it's not like I'm spoiled by super-sonic clear speed when I normally play. I played Ranged Attack Totem Barrage last league ffs. I don't enjoy standing in a room and seeing what the traps are doing. I don't enjoy watching the environment get to participate in more movement than I do.

3) Dead ends. While the rest of the game can suffer from this to some extent, since it doesn't suffer from any of the other listed points, it isn't nearly as offensive. Because the Lab DOES suffer from the other things, the dead ends are a force multiplier of frustration.

4) Back tracking. Even without the dead ends, there is a TON of backtracking to do in the Labyrinth.

5) Reset on death. I hate replaying levels of anything. If I lose a mission in Fire Embled I'd rather put the game down for a day than restart the second I fail. While this may seem like a contradiction since I play hardcore toons on occasion in every ARPG I ever play, it's not a contradiction - because I OPT INTO hardcore.

6) I have to leave stuff on the ground. In a loot collection/trading game. Purely antithetical to the core of PoE.

7) It's near-mandatory. And this is coming from someone who usually chides others about using the word 'forced'. While I'll stop short of using the 'f' word, Ascendancy is the namesake of the league for a reason. In the vaal expansion, every part of it was opt-in, and none of it felt mandatory. This is the polar opposite.

8) Overall length. Spent a total of 3 hours attempting the Labyrinth. I've seen Izaro once. I anticipated that since the Labarinth was the only thing-to-do being added during Ascendancy it would be way too long as it attempted to justify its existence. I was right.

Thankfully I'm playing a build that really only wants 2 of the ascendancy points to make the build work.

I'll be picking up my 2 Ascendancy points some other day, probably when I'm over level 80. And I'm never touching the Lab again. Huge disappointment.

*Edit*

In retrospect, I'm very happy with the course this thread took. I'd also like to posit a few changes that I think could improve the experience of the Labyrinth, while retaining a lot of the challenge. As of the edit, there were 5 pages of responses, so potential discussion of things post edit may start there.

1) They could change the ratio of traps to fighting, and weight it a bit more toward the fighting. The puzzle aspect is pretty much there to stay I suppose. It is the 'labyrinth' after all.

2) This would probably improve through experience (concession). BUT as a counterpoint to that concession, if the layout changes every day, and I have no desire to do this twice ever, let alone twice in one day, that doesn't really apply to me :P

3 & 4) Dead ends & backtracking. Unavoidable - but will be less frustrating if change number 5 happens.

5) Reset on Death. Either you keep your keys and go back to the beginning, or checkpoints at Izaro. Or both, I'd be fine with both.

6) Leaving loot behind. Put a static portal at the map markers that you can only use if you are on full hp - they take you to a vendor that is self contained within the labyrinth so you can use your stash, vendor, but your flasks don't reset.

7) It's too late for number 7. This was settled the moment they decided to make the Labyrinth the be-all end-all of Ascendancy. Unless they wanted to give you your first two for free. Which wouldn't be as bad as it sounds actually, since the truly casual players don't even make it to maps in the average league, right? Those players are going to be shut-out of Ascendancy content unless they want to plug away for the duration of the league. While GGG are in ways forever beholden to their earliest contributors, they may find that they are more immediately beholden to expanding their total player pool (a.k.a. the 'new player experience').

8) Hard to compromise on this without devaluing the 'exploration' part of the experience. Although exploring could be quite fun if death wasn't a full and hard reset.

A big-picture way to solve a lot of my issues would be this:

Make the trials harder.

2 AP for beating normal trials, the labyrinth is just for the enchant.
2 AP for beating cruel lab, but make cruel lab 1/3 of the current lab.
2 AP for beating merc lab, keep it exactly as it is.

This smoother curve would be much more friendly to new/casual players, but would still allow anyone who wants to, to challenge themselves in merciless (which imo, is pretty consistent with how a lot of content in this game already works).

Edit: edited the title, how tf did I click this thread a million times and not notice a typo in the title fml.