First Wave of Trade Improvements

I would like to say several things:

1) This is P2W as much as additional regular stash tabs were P2W. Which is to say they significantly increase your ability to play the economy efficiently, take that as you will. I myself would have preferred an auction house, which is where this is headed anyway, now that buyouts are officially supported.

2) Just because the amount of money for extra stash tabs (both regular and premium) is insignificant to you, doesn't me it's insignificant to everybody. I can buy a week's worth of groceries, albeit humble, for 10$. The game is played worldwide and countries have vastly different incomes and prices, while 10$ is still 10$ no matter where you are.

3) Players who never spend a dime are still important for POE because the more people you have, the more fun you can have trading, partying, competing in races, discussing the game and so on.

4) I believe that GGG should have given everybody 1 Premium Stash Tab for 3 reasons. (A) It is no longer justifiable to play with 4 stash tabs when you have jewels, cards, maps, fragments, more skill gems and other things than when the game started. (B) You want people to try the Premium Stash Tab functionality, see how convenient it is and have them purchase more. I am willing to bet many people who haven't purchased any Premium Stash Tabs would have purchased them if you lured them in with one free. (C) The community backlash would have been severely reduced, maintaining the good image.

5) As the system continues to improve and move away from the old way, the old way will be increasingly less supported by the popular tools. This is why I find the argument of "you can still use the old approach" a bit fallacious. You cannot rely on 3rd party systems to keep up with multiple approaches for an unlimited amount of time. More importantly, people were requesting a better system because they don't like the old one. So saying: "Pay, or keep using the system you don't like" is not ideal.

"

Chameleon wrote:

Sorry Jonathan but I refuse to use any 3rd party websites.
All I want is to be able to sell my stuff without having to deal with a person in any way.

Wrong game then, it's not technical difficulties preventing that from happening but a stated design goal.

"

Sacr0 wrote:

this is the first time in PoE that there's content available only to people who bought something for real money. Why dont you make it work with all stash tabs, not only premium ones?
I always loved PoE for beeing 100% free. This sounds a bit like: hey, do you want to get more currency via trade? come buy premium stash stabs.

What? Try trading seriously with only your default tabs. This doesn't change much just makes it easier as stated in multiple places. The time spent writing this post is about the same as setting up the "normal" way with acquisition.

"

Koksii wrote:

Well, thats kinda bad. Whats next? Poe.trade implemented ingame? Trading only works because only a minority of players are into trading.

I feel the same way but it's a pretty selfish feeling I suppose and very understandable the devs have a different view on it.

"

daleroy wrote:

What happens if poe.trade gets shut down? Are these changes purely aimed at 3rd parties, or will GGG also have tools eventually that work with them?

It's an api which makes it easier to build sites around this data. In the unlikely event poe.trade shuts down and noone builds a replacement (highly unlikely the next 10 years) then sure it would be pretty likely that they consumed their own api's and build a site around that but it's never going to happen so moot point.

interesting ..

So where's the search function ? How can player's search for items?

"

SuicideSpree3 wrote:

"

ihasmario wrote:

All of the salt miners need to realise that the existing system for tabs was already an effectively "pay for advantage" system. Particularly when you take into account time saved, accessibility and chaos recipes.

These things in particular are emphatically in favour of people with more stash tabs.

If you're complaining about this - which you can - then you should also be raising your voice about the existence of stash tabs, and also the existence of chaos recipes. These provide real advantage to people who have paid money for stash tabs.

From a business perspective, giving everyone a free "upgrade to premium stash tab" would be useful. People who have already upgraded all their tabs would be inclined to buy more. People who haven't would have access to the system (and once they realise that one stash tab isn't enough, would want to buy more).

First of all, the fact that this was already PTW doesn't really make things better.

Secondly, what is really wrong here is the people paying for basic stash tabs have been completely screwed over, because GGG has arbitrarily preferenced a certain type of payment. Some people here seem to have 100s of basic stash tabs, which are now less useful than even 5 or 10 premium ones. It's really spitting in their face, because presumably the reason they got basic ones was because there was no functional difference between the two until this just happened.

Chaos Recipes isn't a separate problem from Stash Tabs. If Stash Tabs weren't already such a PTW this wouldn't be a problem in itself.

And none of this changes that despite GGG's promise that POE will never be pay-to-win, you can't progress remotely efficiently unless you do actually pay. Short of juggling semantics I haven't see ANYONE amongst those defending GGG either admit flat out that GGG have lied, or explain how this isn't paying to win.

so it is pay to win if some people are able to just fill stashes without thinking. Sounds stupid to me played for a year with 4 tabs and was fine ... Just becasue you have to look if you really need it before stashing isn t pay to win.

"

Joo wrote:

It's an api which makes it easier to build sites around this data. In the unlikely event poe.trade shuts down and noone builds a replacement (highly unlikely the next 10 years) then sure it would be pretty likely that they consumed their own api's and build a site around that but it's never going to happen so moot point.

Actually I wish PoE would just take over poe.trade (then co-opt it into the game of course). That would also resolve the whole "giving login details to a third party app" problem.

GGG,

Please don't leave regular stash tab user's out of the game. This heavily gates new players and forces them to spend money to play the game, one of the reasons your players love you so much is that this is one of the first truly "fair" free to play games; Personally I have all premium stash tabs so this doesn't really effect me too greatly however I don't think this is fair in the slightest.

As a programmer there's something else that bothers me slightly, I understand that having thousands of bot's constantly scraping your website without an API is probably incredibly taxing on your server's and expensive for you to maintain. This change should dramatically decrease the overhead in server costs (If I had to guess I would probably say 60-70% of all traffic to your site is generated by bots updating and scraping the forums), if this is actually reducing the overhead costs of running your website why are you at the same time forcing user's to spend more to access this feature?

From a business standpoint let me suggest the following alternative, allow for non-premium users to use the same listing tools, this will cause all the users utilizing third party scraping tools to swap over to the in game functions and thus decrease the load on your servers and actually cause you to save money rather then lose it. Anyway just my 2cents I'm sure the outcry from the online community will at least cause you to re-think this decision and I trust you guys to do the right thing :).

~A Concerned Player

"

tattoogun wrote:

The main "argument" (i dont think so it is) was about the game become p2w. So p2w means you have to pay to get high-endgame gear and you have to pay to get your items min-maxed. you can make the trade still FOR FREE so you dont have the force on you to go and buy premium tabs to make effective trading couse you can do it (once again) FOR FREE! So the pointing on "POE become p2w" its failed.

Yeah well this discussion is officially [Removed by Support]since you don't try to understand - or even read - what I say(you don't even think I used arguments, so I'm not surprised). Also you are going in circles.

"

tattoogun wrote:

So why is a big deal to buy couple of them and make your trade "Comfortable"? You got already 1 big Expansion for FREE and the 2nd big one is coming in couple of days also for FREE and top of that you playing the whole game for FREE....why a pain in the ass for you guys spend 20 bucks for 6 "Comfortable" Premium stashtab since you got a tons of things for free?

This argument is just silly. Plus you obviously don't get what f2p is.

Edit v3 :

"

Huaojozu wrote:

2) Just because the amount of money for extra stash tabs (both regular and premium) is insignificant to you, doesn't me it's insignificant to everybody. I can buy a week's worth of groceries, albeit humble, for 10$. The game is played worldwide and countries have vastly different incomes and prices, while 10$ is still 10$ no matter where you are.

P.S : I let you have the final say if you feel the need to reply to my non-argumentative post

@Jonathan "which players are online. To address this, we have created a new API that allows third-party websites to be able to get this information."

ALELUYA

I am thankful that GGG is finally making changes to the Trade system. Trade as it stands now really is bad no matter how you look at it. What I do not get is people saying things like 'Freeloaders" wtf is that if you bought many regular tabs which do help support the game? I am a working woman of 3 children and both boys play this wonderful game. They have many tabs. Imagine my surprise when they said all need Premium Stash stabs.?!?! As a player I have tried many times to use this 3rd-party crap and use the existing Trade it sucks. Me and my boys are not buyers/flippers, just regular folks playing a great game that has one the worse Trading system I have ever came across (besides the D3 mess).

Again thank-you very much GGG for all the hard work you guys/girls are doing to improve this great game. Just the Premium tab thing is a little too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrZcUgHfNxQ