ZiggyD Reveals the Scion Ascendancy Class: The Ascendant

Bit nuts but yes I'd rather see a completely different class than the scion. Shape shifter/animal druid summoner type.. I know, D2 :p

"30% increased Damage of each Damage Type for which you have a matching Golem.

The Damage Types are Physical, Fire, Cold, Lightning, and Chaos."

Multi golem and Summon Lightning Golem HYPE !

This is so unbalanced and need a fast change, why?

Its not even about having the ability to start of other class node, with that I am ok, even if its high boost.

The problem appear with the ability to pick 2 ascendancy passive nodes, where some are almost as strong or even stronger than whole 6 points in the pure class.
So you basicaly get 2 skill points + high dex/int/str stat boost + like 10 ascendancy points value in ascendacy class nodes. Thats like two times more stats value than any other class (wtf?).


The skill tree should be remade to have to invest 4 points to get to class node and 6 to get to unlock starting point:
- this will block overpowered spec that use 2 class passive
- it will not punich people who unlock other starting point, because wtf now you spend 5 points and the last one sems like waste/unimaginate pick

Way too overpowered

"

herflik wrote:

This is so unbalanced and need a fast change, why?

Its not even about having the ability to start of other class node, with that I am ok, even if its high boost.

The problem appear with the ability to pick 2 ascendancy passive nodes, where some are almost as strong or even stronger than whole 6 points in the pure class.
So you basicaly get 2 skill points + high dex/int/str stat boost + like 10 ascendancy points value in ascendacy class nodes. Thats like two times more stats value than any other class (wtf?).


The skill tree should be remade to have to invest 4 points to get to class node and 6 to get to unlock starting point:
- this will block overpowered spec that use 2 class passive
- it will not punich people who unlock other starting point, because wtf now you spend 5 points and the last one sems like waste/unimaginate pick

It's not unbalanced, pure classes are clearly stronger. NONE of them are stronger than whole 6 points in a pure class, what are you on about?

2 skills points + like 10 ascendancy points? Get out of here.


Can people please contain their orgasms? This is getting pathetic, scion clearly isnt OPOP. Just stop it.

Make male/female versions of each class please.

"

krilox wrote:

"

herflik wrote:

This is so unbalanced and need a fast change, why?

Its not even about having the ability to start of other class node, with that I am ok, even if its high boost.

The problem appear with the ability to pick 2 ascendancy passive nodes, where some are almost as strong or even stronger than whole 6 points in the pure class.
So you basicaly get 2 skill points + high dex/int/str stat boost + like 10 ascendancy points value in ascendacy class nodes. Thats like two times more stats value than any other class (wtf?).


The skill tree should be remade to have to invest 4 points to get to class node and 6 to get to unlock starting point:
- this will block overpowered spec that use 2 class passive
- it will not punich people who unlock other starting point, because wtf now you spend 5 points and the last one sems like waste/unimaginate pick

It's not unbalanced, pure classes are clearly stronger. NONE of them are stronger than whole 6 points in a pure class, what are you on about?

2 skills points + like 10 ascendancy points? Get out of here.


Can people please contain their orgasms? This is getting pathetic, scion clearly isnt OPOP. Just stop it.

Look at deadeye passive in example:
50% arrow piercing - deadeye himself have 100% pierce but it raduce with range so at avarange its 50% or less (depending from build), plus it give critical chance with Scion doesnt give, I would rate it high since piercing > crit chance in terms of possible power pumping thus thats worth like 0,75 points IMO
- 30% more damage the further target is - exactly the same as deadeye - 1 point
- additional projectile - not like many people will give crap about some accuracy lose, mostly the difference is in % AOE increase (with isnt so impotant for many bow chars anyway) would rate that at 0,75 points
- you also get % projectile speed with means higher range, would rate it on like 0.25 point

Lets also be honest, major nodes are worth WAY more than the nodes between them, so I would go for ratio of 4:2 for those.

Suming it up I get totall effectinvess value of pure class as 4x3 +2x3 = 18, where on Scion its 4x2,75 = 11.
11/18 = 61% of effectivness, so 3,66 ascendacy skill point value.

Taking in account that other classes are similar.
You get 3,66 x2= 7,22 ascendancy points + 2 skill points in basic tree + 2 high dex/int/str nodes in ascendancy.

And balance simply states, if its over 6 ascendancy points its already stronger than others.

The class nodes in Scion should have power ratio of like 2 ascendency points each, where we can say that the 2 others are from skill points + attribute nodes, since they are similar in power with the minor nodes in ascendancy classes.

I agree that not all Scion classes are worth over 3,66 ascendancy points, but if half of them is near that number (or just over 3) its already enough for many people to make gamebreaking builds from it.

F*** all this ascendancy. Dont want to level masters, currency and uniques again after so short talisman league :(

"

herflik wrote:

"

krilox wrote:

"

herflik wrote:

This is so unbalanced and need a fast change, why?

Its not even about having the ability to start of other class node, with that I am ok, even if its high boost.

The problem appear with the ability to pick 2 ascendancy passive nodes, where some are almost as strong or even stronger than whole 6 points in the pure class.
So you basicaly get 2 skill points + high dex/int/str stat boost + like 10 ascendancy points value in ascendacy class nodes. Thats like two times more stats value than any other class (wtf?).


The skill tree should be remade to have to invest 4 points to get to class node and 6 to get to unlock starting point:
- this will block overpowered spec that use 2 class passive
- it will not punich people who unlock other starting point, because wtf now you spend 5 points and the last one sems like waste/unimaginate pick

It's not unbalanced, pure classes are clearly stronger. NONE of them are stronger than whole 6 points in a pure class, what are you on about?

2 skills points + like 10 ascendancy points? Get out of here.


Can people please contain their orgasms? This is getting pathetic, scion clearly isnt OPOP. Just stop it.

Look at deadeye passive in example:
50% arrow piercing - deadeye himself have 100% pierce but it raduce with range so at avarange its 50% or less (depending from build), plus it give critical chance with Scion doesnt give, I would rate it high since piercing > crit chance in terms of possible power pumping thus thats worth like 0,75 points IMO
- 30% more damage the further target is - exactly the same as deadeye - 1 point
- additional projectile - not like many people will give crap about some accuracy lose, mostly the difference is in % AOE increase (with isnt so impotant for many bow chars anyway) would rate that at 0,75 points
- you also get % projectile speed with means higher range, would rate it on like 0.25 point

Lets also be honest, major nodes are worth WAY more than the nodes between them, so I would go for ratio of 4:2 for those.

Suming it up I get totall effectinvess value of pure class as 4x3 +2x3 = 18, where on Scion its 4x2,75 = 11.
11/18 = 61% of effectivness, so 3,66 ascendacy skill point value.

Taking in account that other classes are similar.
You get 3,66 x2= 7,22 ascendancy points + 2 skill points in basic tree + 2 high dex/int/str nodes in ascendancy.

And balance simply states, if its over 6 ascendancy points its already stronger than others.

The class nodes in Scion should have power ratio of like 2 ascendency points each, where we can say that the 2 others are from skill points + attribute nodes, since they are similar in power with the minor nodes in ascendancy classes.

I agree that not all Scion classes are worth over 3,66 ascendancy points, but if half of them is near that number (or just over 3) its already enough for many people to make gamebreaking builds from it.

Deadeye:

- 100% pierce initially and tapers off, crit chance is also increased.
- Pathing points: 30% proj damage (3 nodes worth) 10% ias (2 nodes) + 10% crit chance.
- Fast and deadly: 10% ias, 30% proj speed, 30% proj damage.
- And +1 CHAIN, which is huge.

Alternatively, up to 30% MORE damage to faraway mobs and +1 proj + other bonuses.

Vs

- 50% Pierce
- 20% proj speed
- 30% INCREASED damage to faraway.
- +1 proj

It pretty clear which one is superior. Also, you seem to forget the pathing points, they're often worth 2-3 passives alone. But you do include pathing nodes for Scion, which are a mere skillpoint. The number 3,66 is one you just made up on the spot. Pure classes are clearly much, much stronger.

"

herflik wrote:

- 30% more damage the further target is - exactly the same as deadeye - 1 point

I'm going to correct you on this one.

The Scion-Deadeye deal up to 30% INCREASED damage.
The True Deadeye deal up to 30% MORE damage.

Why does that matter? Increased damage is additive with any other damage increases. While More damage is multiplicative with all damage. Meaning the True Dead eye will see a greater effect of that 30% than the scion version.

Evidence:

Scion Deadeye and True Deadeye both strike a target using the same equipment, same stats, and same distance. Lets look at the hypothetical numbers. Lets assume both deal exactly 100 base damage, both have 15% increased damage from jewels, and both are at the maximum range for the farshot node.

Scion Version:
The damage equation would look like this: 100*(1+ .15(15% from golem)+ .3(30% from farshot)=
100*(1.45)= Total Damage of 145

True Deadeye version:
The damage equation would look like this: 100*(1+ .15(15% from golem))* (1+ .3 (30% from farshot)= 100*(1.15)*(1.3)= Total Damage of 149.5


These are with low numbers. 100 damage is nothing and the True deadeye is already ahead by about 2.7%. The higher amount of "increased damage" both set-ups receive, the further ahead the True Deadeye gets.

Using the same numbers just increasing both characters increased damage to 50% before farshot results in this.

Scion: 100*(1.80)= total damage of 180
Deadeye: 100*(1.5)*(1.3)= total damage of 195 Meaning the deadeye is now 7.6% ahead in damage.

Moral of the story? The only time these points are exactly the same for damage reasons is if neither set-up has any other source of "increased damage." Late game, there are so many ways to obtain even a small amount of "increased damage" that it's impractical to assume that would occur frequently. The points aren't exactly the same and the specific wording does matter.