Why is a better way to trade that difficult?

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goetzjam wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I'm not against asynchronous trade, but it needs to retain the form of asynchronous haggling, not asynchronous buyouts. At no point should haggling mean having to wait for someone to be online, while buyouts mean not having to wait.

Also, everything the public can view can be indexed, whether GGG allows it or not. Because F2P game, and bots.

You have a good point there, why is the buyout way easier both in practice and execution in almost every suggested trade thread, when the haggling is the one getting the shitty treatment.

Perhaps they don't want to introduce a system that doesn't fit what they want and wants to ensure it isn't a pile of buggy shit before they release it?

 The whole problem with trade chat has always been and always will be that it is damn near impossible to have the buyer and seller on-line at the same time. That is why the whole "haggling process" gets a bad rap. It was bad and with flawed logic from the get-go. We have to have a way to conduct an item purchase without the seller being in PoE. Without taking the seller physically out of purchasing loop (because we can't immediately communicate with the seller that POE.XYZ says has the item you are looking for) then we can't move forward with a better trading method and might as well concede that trading in PoE will be crap forever. Strange that GGG is so centrally focused on making trade very important but then fails to make it easy. Please, none of the "this is a hardcore arpg so trading should also be hard" nonsensical crap. Trade chat is fundamentally broken and must be replaced if trading is to actually be a central feature of PoE and regularly used.

 As I see it "asynchronous haggling" means that I offer a price for the item, but the seller isn't immediately available to directly communicate with (off-line) and I will need to wait some time before getting a response back. I see that asynchronous haggling could/would take longer to negotiate a buying price and would be worthless except for high end endgame gear where time isn't that critical. For example, I played a build from end of Normal act 1 all the way to Cruel Docks Act 3 last weekend. If I had wanted to buy a better leveling bow to advance faster I would need an immediate way to buy a better quality bow. Asynchronous haggling via some form of messaging system would be way too slow to work at all (the seller could be visiting family over the Christmas weekend) and by the time he gets back to me I'm into Merciless difficulty and way passed the need for that bow. Totally impractical. We need a way to find an item (a bow for example) and have a way to buy it now so we can immediately use it during our current play session, not have to wait until some future time when the seller finally gets back in touch but by then I'm many levels higher and that item is now useless to my build.

 GGG would not replace the POE.XYZ sites since they already do a great job for searching for an item for sale. The "For Sale" stash is just a way to place items up for sale that can be bought without needing to be playing PoE. The web browser interface is just a portal to a players "For Sale" stash. There is nothing else other than the "For Sale" stash view and the ability to buy an item. If we are buying off-line then the purchased item will be added as a read-only in our own "For Sale" stash to be retrieved once we log back in. There is no search tool that GGG needs to code since that is already being handled quite well by the third party trade search sites. If you are worried about bot attacks then GGG would logically have to implement some form of captcha to view a "For Sale" stash. Most sites have had to implement some form of captcha to keep the bots out so to access a "For Sale" stash using your browser a captcha type of security would be used.

 GGG has had almost 3 years (since OB) to come up with a replacement for trade chat and hasn't. We who have been playing since CB and are still here and mostly enjoying PoE (uh... you can tell that I like PoE... yes?) have a right need a better trade function and GGG shouldn't expect us to be happily trading with the original trade chat that is a throw back to last century arpg's.

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goetzjam wrote:

In terms of players not willing to take a few minutes to complete a sale, I think this is a key part that keeps a balanced check on trading. I've mentioned many times I don't have anything listed under a chaos (actually this league nothing under 2 chaos) because I can't be bothered to interrupt my gameplay for anything less.

If a player is not willing to be bothered to temporary stop his playing and conduct the trade then why he/she bothered to put his/her items on sale?
It has nothing to do with trade balance, it's all about that player being a major asshole.

If someone puts an item with a buyout price on sale and then fails/doesn't bother to even respond to the potential buyer, then in my book he/she is being an asshole. He/she robs me of my free time to play PoE or to do other things.

You mention that you price everything a minimum of 1 or 2C. That is O.K. and you actually show up.

These people I/We are talking about are sellers who also sell items with a buyout price and are in game. BUT, not only they not show up to do the trade, most of them don't even bother to reply to you: Sorry I'm mapping, few minutes please. etc. Most of the time they are not even mapping because I can see them being in their hideout.

Imagine this in real life:

You find the perfect laptop online you want to buy. You can't because the listed sellers page is currently unavailable for whatever reason. You decide to reach them by other means, phone, e-mail, but they don't pick up, doesn't respond (like ever).

How would you feel about them then. What would you call such person/people?


As for bots, there are bots now too, whether there is a trading system or not, whether there are little axes falling from the sky or not. They will be here no matter what. They get banned and come back with another account.
Will there be more of them if there was a better trade system. Sure, but that only means that GGG must implement a more aggressive policy and a radically new method.
CAPTCHA is not a bad idea BTW.

Because not too much fun allowed bro. Things must be hard, wraeclast is an unforgiving place, amirite? Muh d2 nostalgia, no casuls allowed. Masochism of trade makes me touch myself at night, I'm such a hardcore playa

Because GGG in their self righteous glory believes that they are essentially infallible when it comes to certain things. The trade system is one of them. It will take Chris maybe another 2-3 years he's wrong, just like how it took him that long to realize that his vision of the netcode was pretty much awful.

"Why is a better way to trade that difficult?"

My question would be "Why is the current way to trade that difficult for some players?" With GGG encouraged third party tools like poe.trade and Acqusition/Procurement, trading is "not that difficult". In fact, it's pretty darn easy.

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mark1030 wrote:

"Why is a better way to trade that difficult?"

My question would be "Why is the current way to trade that difficult for some players?" With GGG encouraged third party tools like poe.trade and Acqusition/Procurement, trading is "not that difficult". In fact, it's pretty darn easy.

Trading at times is very difficult especially if the guy who has the item you want is in a totally different country.

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allbusiness wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

"Why is a better way to trade that difficult?"

My question would be "Why is the current way to trade that difficult for some players?" With GGG encouraged third party tools like poe.trade and Acqusition/Procurement, trading is "not that difficult". In fact, it's pretty darn easy.

Trading at times is very difficult especially if the guy who has the item you want is in a totally different country.

If there is only one item you can't find an alternative to, then set your alarm and get up at 4 AM or whenever the seller plays. I can find plenty of items from people who are online when I can be. There are millions of items. You really need that one from that guy who lives in another country?

I don't think GGG needs suggestions scheming up trade platforms at this point; I think, as they've said, they already have something in the works... which means suggestions like this, regardless of merit, are probably not helpful. And I don't think more noise on the issue will speed things up, unless the community mobilizes social-action style (lol).

I really like the idea Arrowneous and I think it would improve the quality of trading 100 fold. It really bugs me when I use PoE.trade to find something to buy and the player is never online (maybe we're in different timezones... what do I have to pull an all nighter just to buy some gear? Bugger that!).

So here's how I see trade moving forward - Bugger I have to leave to work soon, so I'll be quick - Trade NPC's in every Wraeclast camp/town. These NPC's open up a PoE.Trade type system allowing you to look up wares in a very specific way. Once you find something that is perfect with a B/O price then you hit a button to visit that players H/O. Each player can have a trade NPC in their H/O that links to Trade tabs in their stash (opportunity here for GGG to have Trade NPC real money cosmetics and what not... also could cover cost of system by making trade stashes something players have to buy to get [maybe they start with 1 or 2 only]). Anyway after the player goes to Trade NPC in players H/O and finds item they want to buy the Trade NPC asks them to solve a wooden puzzle (captcha to prevent Bots but implemented in a nice, thematic way) saying that corrupted agents of Malachai don't have the wisdom required to complete the puzzle and so would never obtain these powerful wares.

Something like that that is deliciously instant and very, very difficult for a bot programmer to exploit. It's just a matter of patience... hope to see it in the future. Thanks for posting Arrowneous +1

chris on trading

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmKcEkzSo0k

forward to 23:20 min