Why is a better way to trade that difficult?

 GGG wants person to person interaction when trading, a laudable goal but one that is fraught with human behavior pitfalls, as some who have posted in other trade threads have described. So direct one on one trading is crap as making the connection in-game is too time consuming and mostly doesn't work. The next best thing then is to have a way to use our hideout and give us a 2nd stash (equal to our regular stash full use tabs) that is for the sole purpose of selling gear. We put our items for sale in it, set the buyout price, and then anyone can come to our hideout, browse through the "For Sale" stash, and buy any item in it. The seller can be completely off-line and the sale can still be done. If you want to barter then there would be a way to see if the seller is currently on-line and available to chat with. If so then a private 1 on 1 chat link is established for the purpose of bartering. When finished the sale price is finalized and the item is bought or the buyer just backs out and looks elsewhere. When the seller comes into PoE a private message stating that "you have sold x items" is displayed, he/she goes to their hideout and "For Sale" stash and a read-only tab of currency is waiting for the items sold. We transfer the items to our inventory and take them to our regular stash and add them in. Simple, effective, and without a huge waste of time trying to directly communicate with players that are either off-line or are too busy playing PoE to take a few minutes and actually conduct a sale.

 The only difficulty I foresee is in actually being able to go into some ones hideout. Since GGG makes the seller name available to third party trading sites like POE.XYZ then we should be able to use the players name in the trade bulletin board in town to get into the sellers hideout and access their "For Sale" stash. If multiple players are looking in some ones items for sale then their hideout is just like being in town and we see the other players there to and get a feeling that Wraeclast is alive with other exiles and not a cold and lonely place. Also if you are in a barter chat with the seller and some one else comes looking at the same item and wants to pay the buyout price without haggling then that item has a temporary lock placed on it and the 2nd, 3rd, etc. player must either wait until the bartering fails and the lock is removed or be allowed to enter the private barter chat and bid on the item. Real bidding could ensue and the seller just might get more for the item.

 We should also have a web portal to be able to browse some ones "For sale" stash without needing to log into the game. With a browser based way to access a "for sale" stash then the 3rd party sites can have a direct link to the sellers stash and we can buy the item immediately. No fuss, no muss.

 Final thoughts. Since we are interacting directly in a players "For Sale" stash it is not a huge impersonal auction house with a gazillion items and far removed from Wraeclast so the personal more direct trade interaction feeling that GGG is wanting is mostly preserved. This also would give us a real incentive to decorate our hideout as we will have real visitors coming in and seeing how we have decorated the place. GGG should be all for selling more hideout bling. A win-win vision.

 We all want to trade, you (GGG) want us to trade, and it is way past time that you give trading the upgrade that has been needed since the beginning of PoE time.

Its a cool idea in concept, however I have some concerns.

Having another selling stash removes part of what people have already invested into. Do we get to reallocate more space for selling or how is that determined?

In terms of finding the item, how exactly is a person to know to go to my hideout because I have an item they are looking for?

In terms of players not willing to take a few minutes to complete a sale, I think this is a key part that keeps a balanced check on trading. I've mentioned many times I don't have anything listed under a chaos (actually this league nothing under 2 chaos) because I can't be bothered to interrupt my gameplay for anything less.


In terms of a web based system, i don't like it. It opens up too many ways for bots and automation with scrips\ect. It also could open up issues if it were to co-exists with the current systems with those tools potentially having access to more then just posting on your behalf.

Trading thru a web interface should be a mail box system only and really should be very limited to keep it from just being automated system replacing trading altogether.



In terms of interacting with a stash, I like it, in terms of automation, I don't. However, I think if implemented properly could help address some concerns people have with trade, but I still have to ask why the hell people think trading is so bad when almost any item in the game is under 10ex in temp leagues. A few more niche uniques are more.

No matter the system there's going to be heavy collateral damage and big cons to whatever pros it would provide.

Honestly I don't even care anymore. This whole debate is so tired.

Just implement something, if it sucks fix it or improve it. They can't fuck it up too bad poe.trade will act as a fail-safe unless they really screw the pooch.

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Arrowneous wrote:

give us a 2nd stash (equal to our regular stash full use tabs) that is for the sole purpose of selling gear. We put our items for sale in it, set the buyout price, and then anyone can come to our hideout, browse through the "For Sale" stash, and buy any item in it. The seller can be completely off-line and the sale can still be done.

No. Just no.

I'm not against asynchronous trade, but it needs to retain the form of asynchronous haggling, not asynchronous buyouts. At no point should haggling mean having to wait for someone to be online, while buyouts mean not having to wait.

Also, everything the public can view can be indexed, whether GGG allows it or not. Because F2P game, and bots.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Arrowneous wrote:

give us a 2nd stash (equal to our regular stash full use tabs) that is for the sole purpose of selling gear. We put our items for sale in it, set the buyout price, and then anyone can come to our hideout, browse through the "For Sale" stash, and buy any item in it. The seller can be completely off-line and the sale can still be done.

No. Just no.

I'm not against asynchronous trade, but it needs to retain the form of asynchronous haggling, not asynchronous buyouts. At no point should haggling mean having to wait for someone to be online, while buyouts mean not having to wait.

Also, everything the public can view can be indexed, whether GGG allows it or not. Because F2P game, and bots.

You have a good point there, why is the buyout way easier both in practice and execution in almost every suggested trade thread, when the haggling is the one getting the shitty treatment.

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Just implement something, if it sucks fix it or improve it. They can't fuck it up too bad poe.trade will act as a fail-safe unless they really screw the pooch.

Perhaps they don't want to introduce a system that doesn't fit what they want and wants to ensure it isn't a pile of buggy shit before they release it?

Imagine:

trading doesnt exist at all and someone suggests this:

lets have a forum with for sale posts with in-game items with no intentions of it being used in trading, then make a 3rd party site that parses this data and implements their own arbitrary "online statuses" and arbitrary post formats to actually be able to parse those posts.




you would all send him to a crazy house.

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drzpicu wrote:

Imagine:

trading doesnt exist at all and someone suggests this:

lets have a forum with for sale posts with in-game items with no intentions of it being used in trading, then make a 3rd party site that parses this data and implements their own arbitrary "online statuses" and arbitrary post formats to actually be able to parse those posts.




you would all send him to a crazy house.

Not sure what your point is, you should probably make that clear.


The forum was actually used as a method of trading way back. People used to browse shops or use the relatively shitty search function here to do so. Then poe.xyz (now poe.trade) came along and put a better search function in place for the items posted for TRADE on the forums. The online\offline thing was added later and its hardly arbitrary, an API change that actually links the status of players to poe.trade would remove the need to set the status using programs or any other method.

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

No matter the system there's going to be heavy collateral damage and big cons to whatever pros it would provide.

Honestly I don't even care anymore. This whole debate is so tired.

Just implement something, if it sucks fix it or improve it. They can't fuck it up too bad poe.trade will act as a fail-safe unless they really screw the pooch.

We should hang out. So that we can sit and nod together in approval to this post. *nodding*

TBH it's a feature that they want to have in but has a low priority due to other means of trade working pretty well.

It was a toss up between fixing desync and implementing trade, and lets be honest...the lock step mode is probably the single largest positive thing to happen to the game since it went open beta.

Since the awakening the priority has been getting the new temp leagues ready and working on ascendancy, i'm fairly sure that if they manage to finish ahead of schedule on that then they would be working on something else which may be the trade system.

I'm sure though that whatever they implement will be moaned about (even if it was an auction house)

I dont like any trade system w/o auction element to bid price to market value. In fact B/O should be illegal so bots cant play. Any System with B/O will be scoured by bots 24/7

I always knew in D3 never buy any b/o listing over 5min old. It was a bad deal. Obvious because bot didnt grab it yet.