Void manipulation is really good, but still won't beat added chaos unless you are doing like 1000 base damage per hit before crits. It's going to take either a 2hander, or a ton of flat phys on gear (and im not sure such an amount is possible). I think no matter what you do added chaos will be your best first support, but I haven't done extensive math yet.
It does depend on your tree, but if you're getting chaos on your tree then you should always be better with added chaos as your first gem. It buffs the initial hit, similar to the way melee phys damage would, only in much larger amounts in most (almost all) cases.
Anything after that is only affecting the dot - IE, you have VS, melee phys, melee phys on full life, and you can now choose between added chaos or void manipulation. Added chaos adds BASE DAMAGE, which is then doubled, at the least, by the poison application. Void manipulation put in that slot instead of added chaos would buff ONLY the dot.
You seem to know what you're talking about! I'm not sure how easy it would be to get this chest into a 3 red 1 blue 2 green setup though, as it's a full dex base:
Is it worth even trying? I guess I should use the 25 chrome recipe for "at least 2 red sockets"?
Added chaos damage looks like a good support gem, as it will add flat chaos damage which will be scaled with all the chaos damage nodes on tree. Which should be a good dps boost. However, we should keep in mind that viper strike is DOT skill. Yeah sure it does really good first hit damage, but in long boss fights, its the DOT that makes viper strike shine. As per the wiki link
The chaos damage will not be added to damage that is not part of a "hit", such as the Bleeding caused by Puncture, or the Chaos Damage per second from being Poisoned by Poison Arrow or Viper Strike.
So, none of the boost we are getting from added chaos damage will contribute to the DOT damage. IMO void manipulation, rapid decay or increased critical damage are better support gems for viper strike.
Last edited by Tereng#1784 on Dec 17, 2015, 8:13:38 PM
@therealjcool, thanks a lot for replying point by point.
I just tried relentless fury, it is very nice and I gain in clear speed and damage.
Also i switch increased crit dmg for increased area of effect, I didn't know this will increase the effect of support gem too ! It's a nice addition for faster clearing.
Now I wonder the below, since you said the off-hand AS will benefit on the main hand, does it mean it's better to go dagger without AS and high dmg/crit ? (maybe not for end game setup, but at least let's say in the upper range of bis gear).
Also anyone tried use puncture + bloodlust for burst (frenzy to keep frenzy charge up)?
Added chaos damage looks like a good support gem, as it will add flat chaos damage which will be scaled with all the chaos damage nodes on tree. Which should be a good dps boost. However, we should keep in mind that viper strike is DOT skill. Yeah sure it does really good first hit damage, but in long boss fights, its the DOT that makes viper strike shine. As per the wiki link
The chaos damage will not be added to damage that is not part of a "hit", such as the Bleeding caused by Puncture, or the Chaos Damage per second from being Poisoned by Poison Arrow or Viper Strike.
So, none of the boost we are getting from added chaos damage will contribute to the DOT damage. IMO void manipulation, rapid decay or increased critical damage are better support gems for viper strike.
You're wrong about that. Read what the wiki says about poison. It is based on all physical and chaos damage dealt during any hit. Physical and chaos.
In fact void manipulation is EXTRA great with the added chaos gem BECAUSE it DOUBLE DIPS on the extra chaos damage applied from the added chaos gem.
Rapid decay, on the other hand, buffs nothing BUT ONLY THE DOT. It's probably the least effective way to buff your VS damage out of all the support gems.
So your optimal setup for VS should look something like:
Viper Strike - added chaos - void manipulation - poison - multistrike - faster attacks/crit strikes/crit damage, with a fast hitting weapon and appropriately leveled gems. And the necessary nodes in the tree, naturally. Of course poison I'm not too sure about - melee phys might win over that...possibly...hard to say. Math gets really confusing on the poison gem.
As to which of these gems you would prioritize as your 6th link... I have no idea. It would depend greatly on your tree, I think. The only thing I can say for certain is that rapid decay isn't very good, and added chaos + void manipulation is an AMAZING combo.
More testing or math is needed though, it's greatly confusing right now. You may still end up right about the gems, but the workings of it tells me you won't be. We really need some actual mathing out of the gem. Maybe if I can get some free time I'll do it this weekend.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
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Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on Dec 18, 2015, 12:01:33 AM
Added chaos damage looks like a good support gem, as it will add flat chaos damage which will be scaled with all the chaos damage nodes on tree. Which should be a good dps boost. However, we should keep in mind that viper strike is DOT skill. Yeah sure it does really good first hit damage, but in long boss fights, its the DOT that makes viper strike shine. As per the wiki link
The chaos damage will not be added to damage that is not part of a "hit", such as the Bleeding caused by Puncture, or the Chaos Damage per second from being Poisoned by Poison Arrow or Viper Strike.
So, none of the boost we are getting from added chaos damage will contribute to the DOT damage. IMO void manipulation, rapid decay or increased critical damage are better support gems for viper strike.
You're wrong about that. Read what the wiki says about poison. It is based on all physical and chaos damage dealt during any hit. Physical and chaos.
In fact void manipulation is EXTRA great with the added chaos gem BECAUSE it DOUBLE DIPS on the extra chaos damage applied from the added chaos gem.
Rapid decay, on the other hand, buffs nothing BUT ONLY THE DOT. It's probably the least effective way to buff your VS damage out of all the support gems.
So your optimal setup for VS should look something like:
Viper Strike - added chaos - void manipulation - poison - multistrike - faster attacks/crit strikes/crit damage, with a fast hitting weapon and appropriately leveled gems. And the necessary nodes in the tree, naturally. Of course poison I'm not too sure about - melee phys might win over that...possibly...hard to say. Math gets really confusing on the poison gem.
As to which of these gems you would prioritize as your 6th link... I have no idea. It would depend greatly on your tree, I think. The only thing I can say for certain is that rapid decay isn't very good, and added chaos + void manipulation is an AMAZING combo.
More testing or math is needed though, it's greatly confusing right now. You may still end up right about the gems, but the workings of it tells me you won't be. We really need some actual mathing out of the gem. Maybe if I can get some free time I'll do it this weekend.
What I wrote about DOT not benefiting from added chaos damage is from wiki page. Please check the below link:
The chaos damage will not be added to damage that is not part of a "hit", such as the Bleeding caused by Puncture, or the Chaos Damage per second from being Poisoned by Poison Arrow or Viper Strike. The chaos damage will however be added to the weapon hits from Puncture, Poison Arrow, Viper Strike, and any other skill that hits.
Last edited by Tereng#1784 on Dec 18, 2015, 12:38:16 AM
So your optimal setup for VS should look something like:
Viper Strike - added chaos - void manipulation - poison - multistrike - faster attacks/crit strikes/crit damage, with a fast hitting weapon and appropriately leveled gems. And the necessary nodes in the tree, naturally. Of course poison I'm not too sure about - melee phys might win over that...possibly...hard to say. Math gets really confusing on the poison gem.
Why would you use poison since VP already poison ? This doesn't do anything as you can't apply multiple stacks with 1 hit.
Kinda curious about added chaos now, seems like a good option for boss fight. For clear speed, I prefer increased AoE.
Hey man, there so many things I would like to say to help your viper build out man. I think you should just check out my thread brotha search "kingshaunter" on forums. spec is viper strike but I use reave for aoe and just swap in viper strike for boss fights, unless your okay with that kinda clear speed go ahead and use splash with viper but the skill isn't really meant to be used like that. and if your CI how come you don't have melee phys damage on full life? that's like the most important one yo, I would die to use that gem in my setup but my build is life based. added fire isn't the best choice to use either, need to work on stacking physical and physical only, I no there only so many other gems u can use. I recommend getting more jewel slots, u pass up ones that cost only 2 passives to get, and frenzy charges aren't what I recommend to stack now that bloodrage only gives 25% chance to gain charge, with frenzy skill then fucken a stack frenzy but I think theres better option. anyways hopefully my viper striker thread can help you with an idea or 2, my thread is end game thread but u can get a good idea. and Bino's is more than enough to kick ass with right gem setup and gear. good luck to ya friend.
So your optimal setup for VS should look something like:
Viper Strike - added chaos - void manipulation - poison - multistrike - faster attacks/crit strikes/crit damage, with a fast hitting weapon and appropriately leveled gems. And the necessary nodes in the tree, naturally. Of course poison I'm not too sure about - melee phys might win over that...possibly...hard to say. Math gets really confusing on the poison gem.
Why would you use poison since VP already poison ? This doesn't do anything as you can't apply multiple stacks with 1 hit.
Kinda curious about added chaos now, seems like a good option for boss fight. For clear speed, I prefer increased AoE.
you stack poison each hit, theres no limit to the amount of poison that u can stack on an enemy, and poison support would be used to increase the poison dmg which im thinking isn't that bad of a gem slot, but melee physical is a gem u HAVE to have. and rapid decay is a gem that I use with my viper striker and its fucken amazing , I use viper strike-melee phy-increased crit multi-rapid decay-multistrike-added chaos, but im about currently trying out poison support instead of added chaos. with my build I use spec throw to gain my power charges which works great, but for certain bosses I would swap pcoc for added chaos.
Added chaos damage looks like a good support gem, as it will add flat chaos damage which will be scaled with all the chaos damage nodes on tree. Which should be a good dps boost. However, we should keep in mind that viper strike is DOT skill. Yeah sure it does really good first hit damage, but in long boss fights, its the DOT that makes viper strike shine. As per the wiki link
The chaos damage will not be added to damage that is not part of a "hit", such as the Bleeding caused by Puncture, or the Chaos Damage per second from being Poisoned by Poison Arrow or Viper Strike.
So, none of the boost we are getting from added chaos damage will contribute to the DOT damage. IMO void manipulation, rapid decay or increased critical damage are better support gems for viper strike.
You're wrong about that. Read what the wiki says about poison. It is based on all physical and chaos damage dealt during any hit. Physical and chaos.
In fact void manipulation is EXTRA great with the added chaos gem BECAUSE it DOUBLE DIPS on the extra chaos damage applied from the added chaos gem.
Rapid decay, on the other hand, buffs nothing BUT ONLY THE DOT. It's probably the least effective way to buff your VS damage out of all the support gems.
So your optimal setup for VS should look something like:
Viper Strike - added chaos - void manipulation - poison - multistrike - faster attacks/crit strikes/crit damage, with a fast hitting weapon and appropriately leveled gems. And the necessary nodes in the tree, naturally. Of course poison I'm not too sure about - melee phys might win over that...possibly...hard to say. Math gets really confusing on the poison gem.
As to which of these gems you would prioritize as your 6th link... I have no idea. It would depend greatly on your tree, I think. The only thing I can say for certain is that rapid decay isn't very good, and added chaos + void manipulation is an AMAZING combo.
More testing or math is needed though, it's greatly confusing right now. You may still end up right about the gems, but the workings of it tells me you won't be. We really need some actual mathing out of the gem. Maybe if I can get some free time I'll do it this weekend.
What I wrote about DOT not benefiting from added chaos damage is from wiki page. Please check the below link:
The chaos damage will not be added to damage that is not part of a "hit", such as the Bleeding caused by Puncture, or the Chaos Damage per second from being Poisoned by Poison Arrow or Viper Strike. The chaos damage will however be added to the weapon hits from Puncture, Poison Arrow, Viper Strike, and any other skill that hits.
Rapid decay is an amazing support gem, its add 38% MORE damage over time which is huge at lvl 19/20, for bosses like uber atziri split phase when u only have just a sec to stack poison and attack with viper tell u have to dodge what she throws at you, this is the gem that's gonna win the fight for you, ya it doesn't add to clear speed or make tooltip dps higher, but viper strike Is single target, not meant for anything else, u can try with splash or w/e but its only gonna be so good. and void manipulation only works well if you already do ele damage correct? im not familiar with this gem but I don't stack wed whats so ever so I don't see how void manipulation would do anything for me. search Kingshaunter's viper striker
