Map vendor formula: should add "2 unidentified maps of same base = +1 level map"
" It's kinda not that good. First it isn't chiselled and would cost more to chisel. For magic the UNID could have only 1 single mod +the UNID bonus. For rare it could have 4-6 mods but again be really shit or include a mod or combination of that your build can't do. The UNID bonus is OK with Vaal's when you know what the UNID mods are, because you rolled them and was pre-chiselled as white. With 3-1 recipe you are really better off IDing and rolling if you are not going to chisel or slipping a white in to make the result white for chiselling. Casually casual. Last edited by TheAnuhart#4741 on Aug 11, 2015, 10:34:37 AM
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" He is fairly right on a very simple basis. Since the opposite is true as well. If you run a 76 map and drop a 74 and alc is you might get a very dangerous experience as well. His argument would be quite sure if maps would actually be lined up to ensure increasing difficulty, however they are not. If you can beat a Torture Chamber, Labyrinth, Jungle Valley or Temple map you can very likely succeed in every 75 and 76 map besides Malformation. I haven't tried Volcano yet, but the first map that has a higher level of difficulty as those 4 lvl74 maps is village ruins and that is a lvl79 map. Orchard, Necropolis and Crematorium might be of similar difficulty, but not higher (for my summoner actually Necropolis Merveil is easier than Graveyard, due to less hp on the first form, which is the more dangerous one for me). Orchard as a summoner is actually incredible easy and crematorium is only a very nasty map if you have somehow gotten good spectres, since you likely lose them (the chance to die though is very low). If those maps would be at approriate levels (iE Shipyard a lot lower, Pit and Desert higher etc.) Boem would be right, rising two levels would face you with a significiant more dangerous boss. Right now you are basically gambling. If you succeed in Temple and get a +2 it could be Malformation or Arid Lake... one of them likely makes you feel as if you dropped a map 2 levels lower, the other will completly wreck you (well at least the boss, the enemies aren't that hard, but thats true for most maps). " I assume you faced Malachai before the nerfs. He is a lot easier now. Merciless he is still very hard, but on normal you actually have to try to die to him and on cruel he isn't harder than Dominus was before on Cruel. Actually Desert Boss is harder than Cruel Malachai and maybe it was due to my builds, but I had more troubles with Daresso than with Malachai (I assume due to Daresso being better at closing in on you). " I didn't know that, thats quite cool, I like unidentified rare maps, did a Plateau netting me Volcano and 2 Crematorium maps and luckily it wasn't even hard :P " No the main reason why this statement was being targeted with a lot of sarcasm and mocking was that it actually means that Chris or GGG as a whole thinks that all higher bosses are easier than those lower bosses. Right now you can actually drop -1 maps and the content gets harder. If they know that those bosses exspecially the 74 ones are a lot harder than everything up to 79 behind them they would not make a statement, but obviously they feel as if it is better if a player goes from 73 to Torture Chamber than to Canyon. His statement actually meant that they deny any issues with the current map-progression (and I don't mean how fast you progress, but the order of maps). And just to mock the players mocking them back, they moved Springs, Arsenal and Overgrown Ruins up to 78 and 79... because there aren't enough incredible easy high level maps and implemented Pit and Desert two maps very likely overwhelming for new players. When my char reached maps for the first time with lvl63 he was able to do a lvl76 Arid Lake map, but he wasn't able to succeed either in Pit or in Desert (actually he was 65 and 66 when he failed on those bosses). " I actually would agree... if it would be normal content and not maps. If a map is dangerous it is often due to 1. Its rolls 2. Its mob-types 3. Its boss Very rarely is the map-level the issue, yes it gets harder but it is not a surprising increase even with 2 levels. It is the bosses that make certain maps feel a lot harder. Torture Chamber is not harder than Arid Lake, the boss is. And due to bosses being totally unrelated to the level of a map and being quite stationary they are easy to avoid if you don't feel like doing them. Now they actually punish players not being able to cope with them, since you are forced to run certain harder levels, due to the lack of +2. You have to go through 74 which is the hardest of any map-levels below 80 with only Waste Pool and Mine being easier and Waste Pool can still be a bit challanging to newer players. The example you showed was Malachai and yes having a wall you can't get over is bad, but having a wall within the core content is something completly different compared to maps, were you can just do another one or not do the boss and still being able to get past. But even walls in the story part of the game aren't that terrible since in normal you are not punished for dying and in cruel not that hard, so a new player will always succeed exspecially now since you don't have to use massive amounts of Portal Scrolls and can just ressurrect and the checkpoint. |
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" Volcano boss encounter shares fight dynamics with Torture chamber (lots of totems teleporting on you, ele. damage), but it's much easier than TC. The same build on same map mods will have much more problems with Shock and Horror, than with Volcano boss. Again a great example of -3 lvl boss being tougher. The map difficulty is non-linear, more so now with the introduction of Act 4 species - maps with higher concentration of Act 4 mobs are more difficult than the rest (71 Phantasmagoria vs say 72 Pier). Because of this the "+2 maps are dangerous" claim doesn't make any sense. It was just an excuse GGG threw there to justify map nerfs. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo#1824 on Aug 11, 2015, 11:04:16 AM
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To address the derail...
Although I'm not saying the "+2 level maps are dangerous" thing makes sense, it should make sense. The increase in difficulty curve from going from one maplevel to another should feel somewhat smooth with just a single level of increase, but should feel a bit sharp with multiple levels of increase. As others have pointed out, this isn't the case, with entirely too much difficulty variance within the same level of maps depending on map base. Because what Chris said should be true, I can accept his reasoning and agree to his conclusions, despite the fact that it isn't how the game currently works, because I think it would be silly to change part of the current implementation if it is part of the final picture. However, at the same time this acceptance assumes that, at some point, maplevel difficulty will be appropriately smoothed out; otherwise, the final picture becomes less of an ideal and more of a compromise, and optimizations should be made towards the compromise rather than the ideal. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Aug 11, 2015, 11:13:17 AM
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"2:1 would be an insane vendor recipe for low mapping. I actually recommend 3:1 recipe for making 68s into unidentified 69s, 2:1 would be even better. Still, when it comes to mid and high maps the 3:1 recipe is a joke in all its forms, and could be 2:1 even when creating the "unidentified" status with no overpowered impact on the player's sustainment efforts. The question would essentially be how much the devs care about "balancing" the pace of low mapping, and I don't know if we should let something like that concern us or not. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Aug 11, 2015, 11:18:59 AM
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Map dropps are a shame in this game since Act 4!!!
RIP leveling high lvl chars :-((((( |
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" Slight derail, but I just thought I'd mention. Volcano is a relative faceroll. But can be a noob trap. We cap resists, we overcap resists for EW. The Volcano boss encounter has EE from the little totems, if one goes into this fight without overcapped ressts it can be nasty. If one goes into this fight with overcapped resists but with EW mod, it can be nasty. The usual would be running it with overcapped resists but not with EW mod, in this usual situation one may never know of the EE mechanic, then find out with a nasty rip when running an EW mod map thinking normal EW overcapping is sufficient. Casually casual.
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Baron01
" You can skim the thread where that post was made by chris. You see newby's just entering PoE for the first time saying "well that actually makes sense" or stuff like "why is everybody reacting like this, it seems logical" I already stated that i don't agree that players should be protected from dangerous content. So i don't agree with the message behind the post, i do however understand the logic behind the post. Two different things. My point is that this remark of chris could have been aimed at people playing the hc league for the first time. Without explicitly stating so. That doesn't mean i am justifying the reduction of +2 maps as a core principle/adjustment of the mapping system. Or the underlying 'hand-holding" sentiment. I am saying that it's no surprise we don't see many post's of him on these boards where a "quick remark on the side" get's ultimately butchered for no reason. Did anybody ask for an explanation, lol no, don't kid yourself. People jumped on that remark to shoot it down, nothing more nothing less. Did that accomplish anything? Not really, it created a nice little circlejerk of people patting one another on the back for agreeing with themselves. Job well done. No dialogue whatsoever. Take that as you will. Peace, -Boem- sorry for the derail scrotes, not my intent. edit :
morbo wrote
" I don't disagree with that sentiment. But unbalanced content doesn't necessarily invalidate the statement. To put it bluntly, for some characters gorge might be a hard map and maliformation might not. This is the nature of map bosses, some content is face-roll for character Y while a challenge for character X. (note : the newly released maps are obviously not really balanced overall, no denying that. But obviously this will happen over time when more feedback is provided) So Maliformation might be a bad example to make my point. I rather take jungle valley instead. Jungle valley is an insane cake-walk experience for a lgoh sustaiment character with decent chaos resistances. while other builds struggle with it, does this mean the map is imbalanced? Not exactly, content needs to provide challenge to a high variety of builds. Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes Last edited by Boem#2861 on Aug 11, 2015, 12:34:52 PM
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You also have to know that there is no point in killing the lower totems, only the boss matters. Once I realized that, the fight became pretty easy.
As for the "+2 maps are dangerous" - I guess we should just ignore that statement. There are other reasons why it might make sense to remove +2 drops from normal bosses. I mean... find the four sacrifice peaces at level 70 and open the Apex of Sacrifice, then you are in for some difficulty. Also noone protecting you from that. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit. Last edited by Char1983#2680 on Aug 11, 2015, 12:25:08 PM
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Offtopic about Volcano
I've done this boss with only my 2H cycloner in Warbands, who has nicely overcapped res to begin with, then fortify, then 7 endu charges on top of that + topaz & ruby always in belt. Under EW, with 7 endus, overcap res. are: 99 - 97 - 87 Might be biased experience, but I have the feeling that Torture chamber fight is more "spikey" than Volcano.
Offtopic on +2
I agree that some bosses are easier with some builds and even that the statement makes sense, in general or in theory where difficulty is more linear / gradual. But I don't really believe GGG cares about newcomers bad experience in maps by how Desert, Dungeon & Pit are balanced in the 68 entry tier. 68 is possibly the most unbalanced tier, with some cakewalk maps (as they should be) and then total RIP ones that will destroy any char freshly out of quest content. Especially newbies. Therefore the +2 statement doesnt make sense to me, not in the context of "safety". Might as well remove +2 drops entirely, because now the relevance of those is at minimum anyway. When night falls
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