Map vendor formula: should add "2 unidentified maps of same base = +1 level map"

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Chris wrote:

It's worth noting that +2 maps are a dangerous thing. They can cause players to get out of their depth

because you quoted that i remembered something chris wrote an looked it up.

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Chris wrote:

Action RPGs typically have three difficulty levels. The player plays through the game several times using the same character, with the challenge ramping up each time. Right back at the start of the project, we thought it would be a great idea to add a fourth difficulty level that was really challenging so that players would have something to aim to beat.
When we tested this, we found that players reacted really badly to a sudden brick wall of difficult content that they were unable to progress in.

what he wrote with +2 maps is basically something they tested out. and while it may not be valid for you, me and other players who have no problem with certain areas being more difficult than the previous, others have.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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vio wrote:

my only question is: did somebody eventually find the more elegant way to farm them?

Yes, deterministically farm midnights on what was then poe.xyz.

last quote for today:

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Are there any unknown recipes still?

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Chris wrote:

There are definitely unknown things that the community haven't worked out yet.

I find that whole "heu heu +2 maps" maps quote from chris ridicules.

Not from him though, but how the community reacts on it.

What you see is some veteran old-school PoE players making a mockery of that statement, when it is in fact very relevant when it was stated.(at the influx of a lot of new players due to awakening pr)

If your in a new league and your not "shopping for gearzzzz" then a +2 map that requires to be alched is indeed a difficult and dangerous thing.

Though i can understand people with a lot of experience facepalm at this sentiment due to accumulated knowledge. Similarly a trade-warrior will have the same sentiment, since he bypasses any and all content by the shortest route the game offers.

Some people need to learn to get a grip and realize the context in which stuff is announced. There was absolutely nothing flawed/faulty with his statement.

And it's truly shameful that it's the core players that fail to grasp the meaning of that post '-.-

Then again, this community never stops to amaze me so i can't say i was all that surprised by the post's following up that statement and the people slandering it.

Though, this should not be a basis for GGG to keep quiet or not work on there communication between the community and dev's.

tl;dr : +2 map drops are dangerous, just not for experienced players/trade-warriors and cookie meta warriors. Big surprise huh? Who would have guessed.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : also, free bumperino for you scrotes.

Not sure if serious.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Not sure if serious.

Don't get me wrong, i am not saying that statement should be a basis to lock +2 maps away.

But it is a statement that holds true.

If your lvl 72, you don't trade and don't play a cookie cutter and you drop a 74 and alch that one 100%+

It's going to be a dangerous experience, more so if you lack prior experience with the game.

It seems fairly logical to me though, what would be your basis to disagree with my sentiment?

Peace,

-Boem-

(on the other hand, i believe the game should be punishing and this should be another form of "player error", so i view the "+2 maps are dangerous" as a positive notion, but i can understand why the dev's see it as a negative one on a new release)

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vio wrote:

what he wrote with +2 maps is basically something they tested out. and while it may not be valid for you, me and other players who have no problem with certain areas being more difficult than the previous, others have.

Have you noticed how map bosses vary wildly in diffculty accross tiers? 74 Merv can be as tough as 77 Merv. Pit, Dungeon, Desert a 68 map? Lol. Megaera wipes the floor with most higher bosses...

The boss is the biggest portion of the map difficulty. There's many bosses than represent a brickwall, while higher ones can be a cakewalk (objectively, for everyone).

In light of this conscious design decison to mess up map boss difficulties accross tiers, the "+2 maps are dangerous" can be taken as a joke statement.

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Boem wrote:

If your lvl 72, you don't trade and don't play a cookie cutter and you drop a 74 and alch that one 100%+

It's going to be a dangerous experience, more so if you lack prior experience with the game.

Ok. I can prove to you that +1 map drops or even +0 are equally dangerous and should be removed from the game :P

Joe the noob plays a Waste Pool map with his SF gear and facerolls the easy map boss, which drops a +2 map - Malformation. Joe proceeds to run that and is destroyed. The Joe goes to buy some 75s, because he's sick of playing 74s all day. He runs an easy peasy Dry Pen, kills the boss and his ads drop a +1 map, It's Malformation again. Joe -> rekt.

Then Joe goes shopping again, and his friend suggests him to buy some Arid Lakes and Gorges, because those are aboslutely easy to run and dont make much difference from 75 or even 74 map. Bosses are easy-peasy too. Joe facerolls everything in those maps and toward the end a chest drops a +0 map. Malformation. RIP.

tldr: +0 map drops are dangerous, if the content is unbalanced.

Btw, one issue I recently discovered with the vendor recipe is: 3 magic/rare maps of same base currently vendor to one unidentified +1 level map. This is actually a pretty cool trick to reliably get the unidentified map bonus without using Vaal Orbs.

Thus the vendor recipe should actually be: 2 white or unidentified maps = 1 map of +1 level (same rarity as inputs). Using an identified map as input should remain at 3:1.

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Boem wrote:

I find that whole "heu heu +2 maps" maps quote from chris ridicules.

Not from him though, but how the community reacts on it.

What you see is some veteran old-school PoE players making a mockery of that statement, when it is in fact very relevant when it was stated.(at the influx of a lot of new players due to awakening pr)

If your in a new league and your not "shopping for gearzzzz" then a +2 map that requires to be alched is indeed a difficult and dangerous thing.

Though i can understand people with a lot of experience facepalm at this sentiment due to accumulated knowledge. Similarly a trade-warrior will have the same sentiment, since he bypasses any and all content by the shortest route the game offers.

Some people need to learn to get a grip and realize the context in which stuff is announced. There was absolutely nothing flawed/faulty with his statement.

And it's truly shameful that it's the core players that fail to grasp the meaning of that post '-.-

Then again, this community never stops to amaze me so i can't say i was all that surprised by the post's following up that statement and the people slandering it.

Though, this should not be a basis for GGG to keep quiet or not work on there communication between the community and dev's.

tl;dr : +2 map drops are dangerous, just not for experienced players/trade-warriors and cookie meta warriors. Big surprise huh? Who would have guessed.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : also, free bumperino for you scrotes.

Too much volatility in your arguments Boem.

PoE is at times game for hardcore audience where no freebies are given and QoL improvements are frowned upon. Suddenly, we see complete stance change where new inexperienced players must be taken care of and protected from stumbling upon too difficult content, ie. +2 maps that will also be very conveniently made rare by dropping Alchemy orb on them achieving 100% quantity as well, by removing or restricting +2 map drops.

Lets ignore the fact Malachai is much harder than bosses under level 76 maps, there are many bosses much easier than him all the way to lvl79 (hint hint Arsenal), bar few exceptions that are notoriously difficult and mostly skipped by general population. Malachai is mandatory on Normal or Cruel because you need to kill him to progress into next difficulty. Maps are optional and engage only when your character reaches certain level of maturity.

[Removed by Support]

The real issues with this particular Chris' statement was that it was hastily posted, improperly backed-up and incorrectly targeted. There is no discussion that seasoned and new inexperienced players were participating in Beta. You cant make such statement about the feedback that was being provided by people during beta that complained about map drops. Those people must felt they are being mocked by GGG and Chris in particular by such argument.

Many more doubtful posts were made in Awakening beta, one of more memorable was their explanation for changing Reduced mana gem to not affect auras. The argument stated was that not everybody has access to Reduced mana gem.

Both above arguments should not be taken out of context and should not constitute sole basis to criticize GGG or make faulty conclusions. However, quality of these and many other posts in past was so appalling that it is hard to take them seriously and be content with those explanations provided.

In the end, you being outraged by people taking Chris' statement at face value is just you conveniently picking one very specific angle and trying to diminish arguments of those that are not content with current state of the game. Nothing else, nothing more.

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Boem wrote:

If your lvl 72, you don't trade and don't play a cookie cutter and you drop a 74 and alch that one 100%+

It's going to be a dangerous experience, more so if you lack prior experience with the game.

It seems fairly logical to me though, what would be your basis to disagree with my sentiment?

Too bad GGG doesn't balance their game this way. Boem fails again.