I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long

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morbo wrote:

"

Dawmz wrote:

They just don't like the fact that many people skipped map bosses previously, especially on dangerous maps, so they decided to create a huge incentive by making the map boss the only entity that can drop +2.

Except that in the current format (1/5 chance to drop any map) it's completely irrelevant.

If I skipped all the bosses I've done in 75+ maps, I'd short for maybe 4 +2 drops. You don't progress / maintain on +2 drops from boss, meaning you can still skip all the bosses you want to skip.

This boss drop chance should scale with total map quantity. Eg.: when total map quantity approaches 150%, the chance that the boss will drop a +1 map approaches 100% and +2 map say 70%. Tweaked accordingly for each map tier.

Just a flat 1/5 to drop any map, has almost zero impact on gameplay. And it's certainly not a huge incentive to do some rip-boss.

I would guess that my current map-progress is 80% based on blues dropping +1 maps, 15% make up rares dropping +1 and 3% from uniques like Exiles or Warband-Members. Most of my +2 drops also happened in 68 maps, since if the boss drops a map there are only 3 levels it can have. In maps above 72 I dropped one single +2 from the boss and it was in a Zana map. In all other cases the boss either dropped nothing or a map that often is not even +1.

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Emphasy wrote:

I would guess that my current map-progress is 80% based on blues dropping +1 maps, 15% make up rares dropping +1 and 3% from uniques like Exiles or Warband-Members.

Exiles can't even drop maps anymore :(

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libstayung wrote:

Exiles can't even drop maps anymore :(

That was a good change though. Map drops are dangerous.

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Char1983 wrote:

That was a good change though. Map drops are dangerous.

Waste Pool + 2 = Malformation = RIP!
Canyon + 1 = Malformation = RIP!

Balanced & safe progression through maps :)

(no srsly, that statement makes zero sense, considering how map boss dificulties are completely messed up among tiers. 78 Crema boss = RIP with pots up, while 79 Arsenal just tickles you, using the same attack...)

Well, after today I am now completely convinced that map bosses are just not worth the time.

I rarely skipped them pre 2.0, I have very rarely skipped them post 2.0.

But the drops don't lie, I'm probably going to just skip them all now because I can have another map in and be running it by the time I've killed the boss, sighed at no maps or troll map and vended the useless loot for an alteration.

This will not screw my progression any more than it is or isn't at the time, not anything close to a drop in the ocean.

GGG goal for 2.0 : Get people to not skip bosses and be rewarded for killing them.

Result of 2.0 : I'm now gonna skip bosses I never used to.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Hyperbole much?

Actually, NO U.

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Dawmz wrote:

I'm pretty sure this decision has nothing to do with tempest.
They just don't like the fact that many people skipped map bosses previously, especially on dangerous maps, so they decided to create a huge incentive by making the map boss the only entity that can drop +2.
And it's not a bad idea, it would be better if the boss dropped a map 100% tho, with like 50% chance to have a map < current level, 20% current level, 20% +1 lvl and 10% +2 lvl or something like that. So if you kill the boss on the map, you already have 50% chance to sustain it or better.

But I'm not talking about +2s.

I'm talking about not being able to drop ANY MAP AT ALL.

Why would you make that change? A white monster, a corpse, a chest, a fucking barrel can drop a +0 map. The only explanation I can think of is that their code for some reason can't adjust the drop rate of maps that individual [unique monsters] have other than on/off. If it was on then a unique monster has an implicitly higher chance to drop a map (even if not +2) than other monsters and chaining 20 exile maps would let people progress without trading.

Could be wrong, of course, I'm just trying to make any sense out of the decision, that's something I struggle at more and more every day with GGG.

I agree that map bosses are not worth the trouble. I've not been tracking how often they drop +0 or +1, but I can say that in 235 boss kills I've gotten seven +2 maps so far. That's basically meaningless for your overall map pool.

If a boss is risky or just annoying, I've started skipping them.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Why would you make that change? A white monster, a corpse, a chest, a fucking barrel can drop a +0 map.

*chuckle*

Random barrel, HP:0 DPS:0 -> can drop maps

Lord Abaxoth, The End Of All That Is, HP:900.000+ DPS:9000+ -> cannot drop maps, cuz hardcor economy reasons

"

demon9675 wrote:

[...]Having tough content available drives me to improve my characters in order to tackle it.

Higher maps aren't tougher content.

The monsters in 80-82 maps are the same as the monsters in 75-77 maps except for linear scaling in damage and HP. How will fighting monsters with 15% more HP and 15% more damage be motivating for you? It's not even noticeable if you have a good build. Higher level maps aren't new content, they're luxuries that dedicated players can afford to pay for.

By making high level maps drop easily all you guys who are whining about map drops will be able to reach 94-96 just as easily as dedicated players who know what to do in adverse conditions. The character power line will be further flattened along the axis that rewards time put into the game. The slippery slope of flattening character power over time put in is that we'd eventually reach Torchlight or Skyrim. Those are great games, but they're not what PoE is supposed to be.

----

Also thanks to ScrotieMcB for keeping up the solid analysis.

So PoE 1.3 was fucked up because normal players could play the highest maps?

Can I have an option where I am allowed to play the highest-level maps with zero drops and zero XP please? I would run all of them. Just because it would be fun.

But yeah, I see that it is dangerous. Better not drop any maps inside maps. So we can all do 68 maps and be safe.


EDIT: BTW, would it harm you in any way if other people reached level 94 like you do as well? Not that I want to, just wondering.

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MatrixFactor wrote:

Higher maps aren't tougher content.

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MatrixFactor wrote:

The monsters in 80-82 maps are the same as the monsters in 75-77 maps

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MatrixFactor wrote:

except for linear scaling in damage and HP.

Holy Dominus what have I just read?

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MatrixFactor wrote:

How will fighting monsters with 15% more HP and 15% more damage be motivating for you? It's not even noticeable if you have a good build. Higher level maps aren't new content, they're luxuries that dedicated players can afford to pay for.

15% you say? Is that the difference between lvl 78 and 72 or 77 and 76? I mean... just LOL at people like you.

As a lvl 89 Marauder (need ~10% for lvl 90), the difference between 75 and 72 lvl maps is actually pretty big, both in clear speed and danger. I can put my MF gear in 72 maps and I don't care about the map mods. In 75's however, I care and I can't roflstomp anywhere near as easy as 72's.

So please, spare us your opinions next time, it's even hard to read without laughing and facepalming at the same time.