I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long

I stand corrected. Then again, I didn't see something in the 2.0 notes about this change being reversed, and now that I think about it, it's obviously still true. If maps could drop at a random level between 68 and N+1, you would need to drop on average 8 maps per 75 to sustain. 75 is easily sustainable without dropping 8 maps per map.

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Dawmz wrote:

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Caustic2 wrote:

You've got a royally fucked history book.

Not really no.

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Caustic2 wrote:

On release, they made maps have a much higher propensity to drop in level ranges close to the one you're running.

I'm like 99% sure this is total bullshit. But if you can find me a patch note stating that, i'd be happy to see it.
The only major change I remember to ease the maps system during the first months of the game was the removal of the "area is a maze" mod and the default size of the maps becoming way larger since everybody tried to roll this mod. Low level maps always dropped in high level maps, it was just not a problem in 1.3 since maps were raining everywhere. Hell, you had a chance at a +2 for each and every rare mob in map.

"

With 2.0.0, it feels like they completely renigged on that change and then some. It wasn't an amalgamation of small additions that made maps unintentionally sustainable, it was by design.

Only GGG know the truth but I'm sure it's not. High level maps became sustainable because of all the backported stuff from the previous temp leagues. Cartographers alone is ok, exiles alone is ok, shrine adding huge mobs packs is ok. But when all of those things were put back in the main game, that created a huge source of maps, and that was probably an oversight.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/606867

read it and weep =)

Nice level of conversation bro.

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Dawmz wrote:

I stand corrected. Then again, I didn't see something in the 2.0 notes about this change being reversed, and now that I think about it, it's obviously still true. If maps could drop at a random level between 68 and N+1, you would need to drop on average 8 maps per 75 to sustain. 75 is easily sustainable without dropping 8 maps per map.

Well, they actually said the same again in a 2.0.0 beta manifesto

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Qarl wrote:

We are making adjustments to the way map levels are decided, that will reduce the odds of low tier maps being dropped.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1300496/page/1

But then they also said this in a 2.0.0 beta manifesto

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Chris wrote:

It's worth noting that +2 maps are a dangerous thing. They can cause players to get out of their depth - playing maps that are too hard for the items they currently have.

And the explanation to the community in a reddit post was along the lines of "Well that's what I was told by another dev"


So, ya. We take it all with a truckload of salt.

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Dawmz wrote:

But that went against the very core design of the map system. I'm pretty sure the situation in 1.3 was absolutely not intended and just a consequence of several factors (cartographers, exiles, shrines...) piling up.
Since day 1 of the map system, GGG always said they wanted high level maps to be something not ordinary, something that you can't chain. A high level map drop is supposed to make the player feel like a unique item drop. And it was like that during closed beta, open beta, and 1.0. Do you remember high end players exalting maps in closed beta ? Nobody complained back then, it was designed and intended to be like that so players dealt with it.
And then map balance went to shit, and everyone could chain highest lvl maps 2 days into new leagues, and GGG let this situation way too long in the live game, which made the players feeling entitled to chaining high lvl maps each day every day.
And finally now, 2.0 comes and GGG decides to fix the problem and go back to the intended design. And all hell break loose.

Except that now the limit of sustainability lies at ~75-76 lvl maps (please ignore Slayer and the likes), with 6-7 more map levels to go.

All of which is accompanied with the exp gain nerf from 2 to 1%. Which starts to shine at some point over 93rd or 94th lvl. I've done math for a 95th lvl character playing 77 lvl maps, he gains ~1.7% exp.
Lvl 99 character chaining 82 lvl maps will gain ~2.2%, good luck with that. I've wasted hundreds of exalts on maps to get my Duelist to 98th lvl, I can't even imagine how much would I have to waste now if I wish to get there.
I'm currently on 74 lvl maps and I'm not advancing to 75's, bought myself 25x75 lvl maps, I can't wait to laugh my ass off with the results.


Also, "nobody complained about shit map drops before" is a joke.


People aren't feeling entitled to chain high level maps, please read the threads/posts way more carefully and don't jump on the bandwagon of clueless duded and/or white knights.

Map difficulty has gone up, we are told that we need to play harder content to level now, however, you can play the hardest possible and you're most likely to get a Ghetto map in your 76+.
That's the core of all these complaints recently. People are playing super hard content and are still not getting any decent map drops.

Also, alchemy orbs now (at least that wasn't the case before) only give 4 mods so you're obligated to waste chaos orbs to get more, which is a super cheap move.
New map mods introduced today are purely for players to be "forced" to reroll the map if they get some of them.
Not to mention the insane chance to get chilled ground mod, it's probably ~80%+ chance. Made mapping so much more annoying.

It's a huge shame that they can't think of any other currency sink so they're ruining a real gem of the game. Map system could be so epic.

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Crackmonster wrote:

crying from unlucky people

No. Not unlucky people, average. You are simply having above average luck.

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tinko92 wrote:

Map difficulty has gone up, we are told that we need to play harder content to level now, however, you can play the hardest possible and you're most likely to get a Ghetto map in your 76+.
That's the core of all these complaints recently. People are playing super hard content and are still not getting any decent map drops.

+1

I'd even accept the huge increase in expenses per map played, if doing 150%+ maps would be actually noticeable. But no, RNG is still the prime deciding factor for map drops. You can play a 200% map and if the "base drop value" (aka "seed") generated on instance creation is low, you wont get shit out of it.

Even a small tweak - scaling the chance that the boss drops a map, with the total map quantity - would be noticeable (and make much more sense, than just having a flat 1/5 chance).

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tinko92 wrote:

Except that now the limit of sustainability lies at ~75-76 lvl maps (please ignore Slayer and the likes), with 6-7 more map levels to go.

But why does it matter ? I don't really follow the point. Yeah atm you can sustain, let's say 76 (probably more with a group since I'm sustaining 75-76 as a solo player who plays a lot but has a life..). If you're sustaining 76, you will relatively often experience 78 maps, sometimes 79-80. And rarely, you'll be able to play a 81 or 82. Maybe once a week, maybe once every few days. Seems to be that's exactly the intended design. The fact that you don't like it is another story, but from what I heard, GGG wants you to feel the same when a 80+ map drops than when you see a unique worth multiple exalts dropping.

"

All of which is accompanied with the exp gain nerf from 2 to 1%. Which starts to shine at some point over 93rd or 94th lvl. I've done math for a 95th lvl character playing 77 lvl maps, he gains ~1.7% exp.
Lvl 99 character chaining 82 lvl maps will gain ~2.2%, good luck with that. I've wasted hundreds of exalts on maps to get my Duelist to 98th lvl, I can't even imagine how much would I have to waste now if I wish to get there.

Honnestly, on the levelling thing, we are also far from the initial design. I remember clearly Chris during beta talking about the lvl 100 as something virtually impossible to reach. It was supposed to be an open levelling system where eventually you could be lvl 100 but it would take a very long time. Exactly like D2 classic.
And it did take a long time. If i'm not mistaken, Havoc was the first lvl 100 of the game during open beta, and it took him something like 70-80 days played time. Well, he reached lvl 100 again in Tempest a few days ago, pretty sure his play time was at the most 10 days.
The very fact that players like me can now imagine reaching lvl 100 is in opposition to the core design of the game. I'm playing tempest, have something like 6 days played and I'm 90. I never played a map higher than 77 and if I still play like I do now, I will definitely up 100 before end of the league. This should simply not be possible.

I think people are reacting a lot about 2.0 because it's a huge shift back to the initial design and I can understand that people don't like it. GGG's fault is that they let the game drift from its bases during 1.2, 1.3 far too long, and when they decided to finally react, they did it brutally.

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Not to mention the insane chance to get chilled ground mod, it's probably ~80%+ chance. Made mapping so much more annoying.

I agree on this.

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Dawmz wrote:

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tinko92 wrote:

Except that now the limit of sustainability lies at ~75-76 lvl maps (please ignore Slayer and the likes), with 6-7 more map levels to go.

But why does it matter ? I don't really follow the point. Yeah atm you can sustain, let's say 76...

Well if for nothing else, it matters because content has also been shifted two levels. Playing 75s-77s actually means you are playing old 73s-75s tilesets & bosses, which have been grinded into subatomic particles a million times already, while the new good stuff is gated at 79+... (yes, I know there's two 2.0 tilesets at 76 & 77, but they are both horrible maps)

PS:
You people no like chiliee with TC? Well I guess you need to chaos spam moar.

This thread turned to shit real fast yesterday... Some of arguments posted here are completely ridiculous.

Best of the worst was some analysis based on PoE.trade maps available for sale in Standard, on which someone draw a conclusion that map drops are fine GG! I have independently came to conclusion that I will be selling any 79+ maps I ever get to those who are willing/able to pay the price. I will need that currency to roll/sustain my lvl75 - 76 maps :(