I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long

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RogueMage wrote:

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MatrixFactor wrote:

We have trading, and we can buy content as well as items in trade. If it's worth it for you, then you buy it. Likewise, if you get maps, you can sell them if you don't want to run them... The fact that you guys are refusing to use all the tools available to you, and to open your minds wallets, shouldn't be the developer's problem.

FTFY

Just to clarify, are you saying that mapping requires lots of in-game currency, or are you saying mapping requires lots of real-life currency?

d

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

and what is your PERSONAL experience of maintaining maps? sorry to put it bluntly - your characters suggest you have little to no mid+ map experience.. characters are so glassy that even early 70 should be lethal to them

so what is your PERSONAL (not anecdotal, not your friends' expierience, not search results) experience on subject matter?

Irrelevant. The economy represents an amalgam of thousands of player experiences, and is far more reliable indicator than any experience I could ever personally have. Or that you could have.

Also, you're contradicting yourself: all personal experiences, once shared, are anecdotal. I mean, that's the true nature of all of these map QQ threads: they are all anecdotal tellings of a situation where the majority experience is much more clearly spoken by the economy.

Again, I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with maps. There is a lot of complaining, and I don't think it's wise to just dismiss such QQ as "unlucky." However, sustainment levels seem to be close to what GGG intended, so the sustainment thing isn't the actual problem. I think the biggest change bothering people has less to do with droprates and more to do with the fact that rares cannot drop +2 level maps at all, greatly shifting importance onto previously skipped boss fights... in other words, players who skip bosses cannot sustain anymore.

irrelevant you say? armchair-generals who've never touched gunpowder were always 'the best' and knew all the answers to all the questions

run that map device and try yourself, otherwise it is all hot air

and calling these threads 'QQ map threads' without ever experiencing what is being talked about is gross

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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RogueMage wrote:

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MatrixFactor wrote:

We have trading, and we can buy content as well as items in trade. If it's worth it for you, then you buy it. Likewise, if you get maps, you can sell them if you don't want to run them... The fact that you guys are refusing to use all the tools available to you, and to open your minds wallets, shouldn't be the developer's problem.

FTFY

Just to clarify, are you saying that mapping requires lots of in-game currency, or are you saying mapping requires lots of real-life currency?

there is a term I once saw in this forum:

RMT catalyst.

ridiculous RNG content-gating, would be the "best" catalyst of all.
followed by the unholy combination of gear-checks, and RNG drops with extremely low odds and utter disregard for risk or content difficulty.

if I was running an RMT site, I'd be looking at this game, and seeing dollar signs.

think about it: Path Of Exile is pretty much the only non-P2W game, using tactics some of the worst kind of P2W games would be proud of.
and when I say "worst kind", I mean the "buy this, or you'll never progress beyond this point" kind.

this always baffled me: why does such a great game, with such a seemingly-solid financial model, need such utter fucking bullshit?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I think the biggest change bothering people has less to do with droprates and more to do with the fact that rares cannot drop +2 level maps at all, greatly shifting importance onto previously skipped boss fights... in other words, players who skip bosses cannot sustain anymore.

Rares who can't drop +2, exiles who cant drop maps at all, beyond bosses who cant drop maps at all, even more nerfed cartoboxes (in my experience..)... this has all to do with drop rates.

"greatly shifting importance toward bosses"?? it shows you don't even play at this level and argue from a purely theoretical pov.

Out of hundreds of 74+ maps I've run, I've seen only a handful of +2 drops from boss, usually it's nothing or some -5 lvl garbage. +2 maps are completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of sustainability now (therefore boss kills are irrelevant). Even in 1.3 and previous iterations, +1 were the maps that made the bulk of your progression and sustainability, not +2.

For the record; my char in Warbands can do any map mods combo and I always full clear the map (1 - 2 stray white mobs remaining at worst). The only two cases where I couldn't kill the boss, were these two:



---

If you want to have a marginal chance at progressing or maintaining, spending a ton of orbs per map is now a requirement. 4x chisel, Alc, chaos spam, vaal, 3x.sac frag and at 79-80+ add Zana Onatopp. For 1 person who does maps, you need orbs of several other players... Which means forced trading.

And in the end progression is still mostly luck dependent, with 150%+ maps dropping useless garbage. Endgame in PoE 2.0 is nauseating, anti-gamer experience, that only big merchants can fully afford and gambling addicts can truly enjoy.

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Somebody wrote:

...suggestions list: 2 maps of same base vendor to map of +1 level (instead of needing 3 of same).

Ooh boy, that is the biggest buff I've ever heard anyone ask for.
Currently, you need 1.594.323 lvl 68 maps to get a lvl 81 map. With your suggestion, you would need only 8192. Assume a low map is worth a wisdom fragment and you can buy a Chaos orb for about 160 scrolls.

So to rephrase your suggestion:
"If I get a lvl 81 map to drop, I want to have a free 200 Chaos orbs!"




Have fun and good drops,
T

/E: Removed the name, this is not a personal attack. Also continued the calculation to more accessible numbers.

Everyone complains because they think you should be able to run literally nothing but 82 maps all day guaranteed, and don't understand how shit that would be if it were actually the case.

Then they mindlessly chant the "Content should be gated by DIFFICULTY not RNG" mantra without realizing that if that were the case 99% of them would probably be stuck doing less than lvl 80 maps because their characters are too weak.

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Weslie wrote:

Everyone complains because they think you should be able to run literally nothing but 82 maps all day guaranteed, and don't understand how shit that would be if it were actually the case.

Are you saying that PoE 1.02 to PoE 1.3 was a shitty game, because people could play indefinitely at 76 - 78?

Also, no one is actually claiming players should be able to run 82s all day, so no need for hyperbole.

Again, I hate to draw the inference but invariably I see people with at most mid-80s characters putting in non-sequiturs about how 'you just want to be able to run 82s all day'.

Matter of fact, I wouldn't mind, but that'd be a complete new map system built around map rolls affecting experience gain and... not something worth talking about here. However, it's kind of not the point in any case. I mostly don't want to be giving up gaining currency to buy items (being the things that *actually* progress your character, and given GGG is committed to good things generally not dropping but being bought) because I need to put it all into maps. Worse, I know there will be the types who stick to boring easy maps and gain much *more* currency than pre-2.0 while I'm stuck gaining nothing, rolling stupid mods and putting lots of relative xp at risk as a result.

As for Scrotie's points: yer data is gahbidge. Unless you know exactly how many players are in (or attempting) higher level maps, and the exact number of maps on sale (not '99+'), you don't have a metric. You have an inference, and as others say, your inference is based purely on theory, rather than any personal experience. Get in there and give it a go; maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones.....

I'd like to add that some bosses are extremely risky except for a select group of builds with great gear. Malformation Piety, for example, who is on a level 76 map. Village Ruin chicken/pig sandwich (mmm, chicken & pork sandwich), which is in a higher tier at 79. Even Crematorium fire witch can be instant-rip if you're not careful.

These bosses aren't "impossible" or anything, but they're very risky and most people will just skip them if they care about exp. So even if doing all bosses somehow guaranteed better map drops (which it doesn't), this wouldn't be a realistic strategy for a lot of people. This ties into risk/reward problems with PoE, such as the fact that there's no reason to bother trying tough bosses - even if they only kill you 1/10 of the time, it's too dangerous (especially in hardcore).

My experience is that my main toon CAN run most content in the game, but a whole bunch of the bosses have a 1/10 to 1/3 chance of killing me, so it's just not worth the try. Others just destroy me, but that's a separate category I know to avoid entirely. Point being, if a boss even has a chance of killing me, it's not realistic to suggest I regularly run it over and over in order to get map drops. Killing bosses shouldn't be mandatory to sustaining maps, because many bosses are harder than the maps a tier or two above them.