A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

its completely different, MoM and AA are forms of defense, while butchering EB will nerf them, those forms of defense are not all that EB does, and nowhere is it stated that the mana and mana regen of EB are the problem this is trying to solve, the only stated intention has been solving the mitigation of MoM and AA, everything else EB offers is just collateral damage.


edit: Its like saying tornado shot is op so we are cutting the physical damage of all bows by 50% and removing phys proj, and then saying bow damage and phys proj were the problem that was trying to be solved when bow users not using tornado start saying "wtf are you doing? Are you insane?"


bows and phys proj are not 'tornado shot' theyre a lot more than that

Eb is not MoM and AA, its a lot more than that.

So... my best char is officially fucked. Tyvm ggg.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

its completely different, MoM and AA are forms of defense, while butchering EB will nerf them, those forms of defense are not all that EB does, and nowhere is it stated that the mana and mana regen of EB are the problem this is trying to solve, the only stated intention has been solving the mitigation of MoM and AA, everything else EB offers is just collateral damage.


edit: Its like saying tornado shot is op so we are cutting the physical damage of all bows by 50% and removing phys proj, and then saying bow damage and phys proj were the problem that was trying to be solved when bow users not using tornado start saying "wtf are you doing? Are you insane?"


bows and phys proj are not 'tornado shot' theyre a lot more than that

Eb is not MoM and AA, its a lot more than that.

I fail to understand your analogy. tornado shot does not provide you defenses. tornado shot problems are solely tornado shot problems. EB problems are EB problems.

EB is one keystone without any downsides besides losing the 50% stun protection and a potential ES pool, that provides you 1)mana, 2)mana regen, which then enables you to get defenses from AA and MoM.

your point, I think, is that the problem with EB is only defenses that benefit from it. I think that it was way too powerful already, and the defenses only made it extremely OP. why should any caster care about mana/manaregen nodes or reduced cost of skill nodes, if they're picking up EB ? it's too simple, too banal and too good.

its tough for AA and MoM to exist without EB- you actually have to INVEST in shit, which is the whole point.
on other hand EB can exist without AA and MoM just fine, just like it had before open beta introduced AA. clearly EB is the problem, not AA or MoM

"

grepman wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

its completely different, MoM and AA are forms of defense, while butchering EB will nerf them, those forms of defense are not all that EB does, and nowhere is it stated that the mana and mana regen of EB are the problem this is trying to solve, the only stated intention has been solving the mitigation of MoM and AA, everything else EB offers is just collateral damage.


edit: Its like saying tornado shot is op so we are cutting the physical damage of all bows by 50% and removing phys proj, and then saying bow damage and phys proj were the problem that was trying to be solved when bow users not using tornado start saying "wtf are you doing? Are you insane?"


bows and phys proj are not 'tornado shot' theyre a lot more than that

Eb is not MoM and AA, its a lot more than that.

I fail to understand your analogy. tornado shot does not provide you defenses. tornado shot problems are solely tornado shot problems. EB problems are EB problems.

EB is one keystone without any downsides besides losing the 50% stun protection and a potential ES pool, that provides you 1)mana, 2)mana regen, which then enables you to get defenses from AA and MoM.

your point, I think, is that the problem with EB is only defenses that benefit from it. I think that it was way too powerful already, and the defenses only made it extremely OP. why should any caster care about mana/manaregen nodes or reduced cost of skill nodes, if they're picking up EB ? it's too simple, too banal and too good.

its tough for AA and MoM to exist without EB- you actually have to INVEST in shit, which is the whole point.
on other hand EB can exist without AA and MoM just fine, just like it had before open beta introduced AA. clearly EB is the problem, not AA or MoM

Except we already invest in a lot of mana, mana regen, and es nodes on the tree. Plus we stack those on gear as well. Its not like all people do is pick up EB and be done.

"

grepman wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

its completely different, MoM and AA are forms of defense, while butchering EB will nerf them, those forms of defense are not all that EB does, and nowhere is it stated that the mana and mana regen of EB are the problem this is trying to solve, the only stated intention has been solving the mitigation of MoM and AA, everything else EB offers is just collateral damage.


edit: Its like saying tornado shot is op so we are cutting the physical damage of all bows by 50% and removing phys proj, and then saying bow damage and phys proj were the problem that was trying to be solved when bow users not using tornado start saying "wtf are you doing? Are you insane?"


bows and phys proj are not 'tornado shot' theyre a lot more than that

Eb is not MoM and AA, its a lot more than that.

I fail to understand your analogy. tornado shot does not provide you defenses. tornado shot problems are solely tornado shot problems. EB problems are EB problems.

EB is one keystone without any downsides besides losing the 50% stun protection and a potential ES pool, that provides you 1)mana, 2)mana regen, which then enables you to get defenses from AA and MoM.

your point, I think, is that the problem with EB is only defenses that benefit from it. I think that it was way too powerful already, and the defenses only made it extremely OP. why should any caster care about mana/manaregen nodes or reduced cost of skill nodes, if they're picking up EB ? it's too simple, too banal and too good.

its tough for AA and MoM to exist without EB- you actually have to INVEST in shit, which is the whole point.
on other hand EB can exist without AA and MoM just fine, just like it had before open beta introduced AA. clearly EB is the problem, not AA or MoM

the quote from rory was that the problem was the mitigation offered by MoM and AA, and that this change seemd to solve that, thats why theyre looking to add it.

You might have other issues with EB but "his change is EXACTLY because its too TRIVIAL to get crazy mana and mana regen by just grabbing one node- EB" is not the reason that has been given, many people have many issues with things that the devs dont think are a problem at all and will never change. Now the devs might agree with your thinking that EB in itself was broken, they may not, they havent said anything to that effect, what they identified as the problem was AA and MoM. You say cleary EB is the problem not AA or MoM, well Rory said exactly the opposite, so that may be your opinion, and Im not saying you are right or wrong in that, only that what youre saying is completely different to what the Devs said was the reasoning for this change.


You say Eb is one keystone without any disadvantages, and then list its disadvantages... so what new disadvantages does it now have? This hasnt added any disadvantages, it just means the advantage is gives you is pretty much dogshit. Ondars was an example of a keystone that has no disadvantage, EB was not.

"

Telzen wrote:

Except we already invest in a lot of mana, mana regen, and es nodes on the tree. Plus we stack those on gear as well. Its not like all people do is pick up EB and be done.

Ya I agree, people say "well all u need is a 600 es chest...." wait, a 600 es chest? With life? And then mana regen on your rings, and your amulet, and maybe even on your shield, and then mana, mana regen and es nodes on the tree, and for this you get to run arctic armour which isnt even as good as getting a chest with 2k armour + life and then spending those passives on armour and endurance nodes... remind me what makes this 'free' again?

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Ya I agree, people say "well all u need is a 600 es chest...." wait, a 600 es chest? With life? And then mana regen on your rings, and your amulet, and maybe even on your shield, and then mana, mana regen and es nodes on the tree, and for this you get to run arctic armour which isnt even as good as getting a chest with 2k armour + life and then spending those passives on armour and endurance nodes... remind me what makes this 'free' again?

I'm guessing that some of these guys have never actually played EB+MOM+AA, if they really believe it free.

On a side note, I would like to see MOM keystone moved up. It would make Cloak less of a default way to go, and well-rolled rare Vaal Regalias, Saintly or Carnals a legit option.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

the quote from rory was that the problem was the mitigation offered by MoM and AA, and that this change seemd to solve that, thats why theyre looking to add it.

You might have other issues with EB but "his change is EXACTLY because its too TRIVIAL to get crazy mana and mana regen by just grabbing one node- EB" is not the reason that has been given, many people have many issues with things that the devs dont think are a problem at all and will never change. Now the devs might agree with your thinking that EB in itself was broken, they may not, they havent said anything to that effect, what they identified as the problem was AA and MoM. You say cleary EB is the problem not AA or MoM, well Rory said exactly the opposite, so that may be your opinion, and Im not saying you are right or wrong in that, only that what youre saying is completely different to what the Devs said was the reasoning for this change.

ok, fair enough- I get your reasoning now. I stand corrected- I was wrong;

"

You say Eb is one keystone without any disadvantages, and then list its disadvantages... so what new disadvantages does it now have? This hasnt added any disadvantages, it just means the advantage is gives you is pretty much dogshit. Ondars was an example of a keystone that has no disadvantage, EB was not.

well they just nerfed its power, didnt they ? the point was that its disadvantages were negligible- extra 500-600 ES does not constitute a hybrid build, and losing a pool of 600 hit points is nothing compared to gain extra 600 mana (thats without any multipliers, which is never really the case)

"

toyotatundra wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Ya I agree, people say "well all u need is a 600 es chest...." wait, a 600 es chest? With life? And then mana regen on your rings, and your amulet, and maybe even on your shield, and then mana, mana regen and es nodes on the tree, and for this you get to run arctic armour which isnt even as good as getting a chest with 2k armour + life and then spending those passives on armour and endurance nodes... remind me what makes this 'free' again?

I'm guessing that some of these guys have never actually played EB+MOM+AA, if they really believe it free.

On a side note, I would like to see MOM keystone moved up. It would make Cloak less of a default way to go, and well-rolled rare Vaal Regalias, Saintly or Carnals a legit option.

if that's at me, Ive played quite many casters/trappers/summoners with EB.

all but one of these toons used EB+AA+MoM except the torment self found toon who didnt use MoM...cause...well, CoD never dropped.

and this is exactly why its the RIGHT decision to axe it this way. any time I made a mana-intensive character or a casting witch/shadow/templar, there was no reason for me to NOT go EB. and then to NOT get AA and to NOT get MoM. that shit is pretty much a must-have trifecta for a ton of builds. this is why that's bad in game like poe which is all about choices.

about the biggest reason would be dropping one aura, which is laughable.

So then how will this mechanic work, exactly? It basically just protects... my mana? In that sense, will this only work with MoM types of builds then, or is the ES over my mana accessible at all for skills?

What I'm wondering is, why not just nerf EB rather than change it's mechanic entirely? Why not just change it to something like, a lesser conversion rate? Such as remove all energy shield, and convert 50% of it into mana, etc.?

Now I'm so worried about my character... I'd only just managed to get it set up in a way that I like and now I have no idea what I'm going to do T_T

good lord GGG WHYYYYYY

EDIT: A lot of other people have been more eloquent in expressing their dislike/discomfort with this sudden change... why not just nerf EB rather than completely recreate it, and then make a new 'Mana Shield' keystone?