A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

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Hi so I have a question for GGG.

I run a RF Incinerater with EB. Would the Energieshield loss of RF
apply to the new ES of EB before life? And would that increase my dmg since I don´t
"lose" the ES for mana like before? On the other hand: wouldn´t that mean that
since I now have, in addition to my 5k life, also about 1.4k ES I need
more life regen to be able to sustain RF?

So if I take Zealot´s Oath
the regen would be based on my max ES, which is far less then the life
I have, which means I can´t run RF all the time. In addition to that
the mana cost of Incinerate with 5 linked support gems is about 200
(11.9 cast per second*35 mana cost/2[spell echoe]) which then would also
apply to my ES which needs I think at least 700 regen per second to keep up RF
for a total of 900 reg.
And that is not possibly since I will propably never have enough ES for 900 reg
and I still need my life because I have no mitigation from ES and running MoM
with this set up sounds impossible.
With the current EB i have about 200 mana reg which is enough for
AA + Incinerate. I think the changes are a little heavy. I´m always
excited for new things and this keystone looks very interesting. If you
change it it would be nice however to give us a lot lot more of nicely placed
mana reg nodes we can take, so we don´t have to use the new EB if we use
heavy mana draining builds.
I guess RF Incinerate will not work anymore which is kinda sad, but only
one build out of many.In my opinion the changes to Meele and the new Skills
are extremely exciting for every meele character and they are very wellcome.
But I don´t think you need to nerf Casters in this way.

Hope you will answere my initial question sorry for my bad english
and math^^
Druffel

zealoths oath + rf is a bad idea anyways, if you know what i mean

Seems that a lot of my incinerate character is trashed now, with the shotgunning changes, buff effect removal and EB made incompatible with the current mechanics of the build.

So fuck it, tear it all down. It's clear I won't be able to play that character anymore. Do whatever weird shit you want.

"

Wooser69 wrote:

Seems that a lot of my incinerate character is trashed now, with the shotgunning changes, buff effect removal and EB made incompatible with the current mechanics of the build.

So fuck it, tear it all down. It's clear I won't be able to play that character anymore. Do whatever weird shit you want.

21 more hours until legit data is released and people can begin rehashing there builds.

Not forgetting that all of that data is still up in the air for another 8 weeks though :').

Lots of changes so far....Gonna be a whole new game.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Pathological wrote:

Here is what I think of it:

It fills a niche that does not exist, while simultaneously removing a niche that covers a massive portion of builds and thus isn't really a niche but simply a design flaw.

EB as a keystone now is taken only because maintaining mana regeneration to support high cost skills is too difficult without it, and too easy with it. It is not a fun or interesting keystone, it doesn't change gameplay at all; it might as well say "remove ES, increase mana by ES value". Because the skills that it supports are essentially mandatory (AA in particular), the keystone is essentially mandatory for those builds too. In other words, it is a boring staple.

With the new change, it is no longer a boring staple, but instead it is utterly useless. As a method of casting spells it is pointless, since it would simply move the requirement from mana talents into ES talents for a net no change. As a method of "protecting mana" it means essentially nothing; MoM would be significantly devalued because the average mana pool is smaller and the ES value remains "effective life".

Are there going to be mechanics that somehow "damage mana" outside of the MoM effect? Are those effects going to be so pervasive that it is worth changing your character that substantially to avoid them?

The only valid use for ES would be the ability to reserve auras in mana and cast from ES, which is a very minimal gain for almost no builds.

In considering the change only from the vaccuum of pre-beta knowledge, I cannot see a valid reason to make this change. I get that it seems more interesting on face value, but in terms of actual gameplay value, what is the point? Where is the gain?

I feel like theres a lot of fair points in here.



Like, if you can invest heavily enough to make the es sustainable... why not just use it as es and have it double your life pool rather than act as mana? Ghost Reaver, ZO, youll probably be spending more ES from casting than ull be taking damage, if it can sustain casting a 6L, or even a 5L, it could probably sustain as a life pool. If you are going to be able to sustain AA from mana on top because youve also invested enough into actual mana, then you dont need the es portion to cast from, and its far better to use the es thats now sustainable as life rather than mana surely? If you cant sustain AA from mana, and you are using your gears "defense" (es) as mana... whats your defense? Youre just wide open, youre fucked, youre essentially like a pure ci char who cant run 5 utility flasks and has less than half the life pool of a pure ci char... why wouldnt you just throw out the idea of ever using pure ES gear, use evasion or armour gear and invest in proper mana rather than in EB ES 'mana', even though you cant properly invest in armour or evasion to the point where its good its better than having literally nothing.


If the stated problem is MoM+AA, nerf MoM+AA, dont redesign EB, thats my opinion.

If another side problem is over use of CoD, move the nerfed MoM keystone to somewhere that makes CoD less appealing.

If EB vs non EB is too big a gap, buff the base mana/regen nodes in the int part of the web and nerf how much mana EB gives you to bring the 2 closer together.

If this mana shield thing seems like it might open up some cool little niche builds, add it as a new node.

I feel like every problem can be balanced without destroying things, and everything new that could come of this idea, and it really is an interesting idea that could spawn some new stuff, could again be added without taking away.

"

Aim_Deep wrote:

Terrible change but I'm glad I have a PoH for its fat 100% mana. You dont even have to take EB normally and can run 25 AA.

Dude...

You are a life saver, I didn't even think about PoH. Fuck the new EB I won't even get it on my characters in the coming patch, it is just too worthless.



The advantages of being wealthy in this game :P

EDIT:



And another...

This is a verrrrrrrry interesting change and I greedily welcome it with open arms. It will definitely need to be tweaked as we figure out how to abuse it (especially with new support gems coming out etc) but I'm all for giving this the green light!

I think the new EB is beautiful.

However, I would strongly recommend placing some "faster start of Energy Shield recharge" nodes behind the new EB. Not taking damage takes serious kiting, but not using mana takes both serious kiting and not being offensive at all.

"

Pathological wrote:

Eldritch Battery IS mana and mana regen. That's the entire point of taking it. Furthermore, the vast majority of builds running EB DO run a high level clarity.

EB is a boring staple talent, certainly, but changing it into something that is now simply an extraordinarily niche talent and making people go elsewhere for mana/mana regen hardly seems to be the answer you want.

No, EB is NOT mana and mana regen. You thinking its actually mana and regen only shows how mandatory EB has become for any mana-heavy use.
I meant, actual mana and mana regen nodes, as well as mana and mana regen on gear.

and yes, it's EXACTLY the answer I want.

the less 'mandatory' keystones this game has, the better. right now EB is the defacto keystone taken by any caster who goes by it.

this change is EXACTLY because its too TRIVIAL to get crazy mana and mana regen by just grabbing one node- EB. if you think this change was done for any other reason, you're kidding yourself.

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grepman wrote:

this change is EXACTLY because its too TRIVIAL to get crazy mana and mana regen by just grabbing one node- EB. if you think this change was done for any other reason, you're kidding yourself.

the quote from rory said that the problem was that MoM+AA was too much defense for too little investment and that this change seemed to solve that, so...

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

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grepman wrote:

this change is EXACTLY because its too TRIVIAL to get crazy mana and mana regen by just grabbing one node- EB. if you think this change was done for any other reason, you're kidding yourself.

the quote from rory said that the problem was that MoM+AA was too much defense for too little investment and that this change seemed to solve that, so...

well I dont see how its different from what Ive said

EB provides too much mana and regen for very little investment. MoM benefits immensely from too much mana and AA does from too much mana regen, respectively. it was already sketchy when there was no MoM, and just AA, but with MoM and AA, EB is clearly too op. get like 500-600 es on gear and you gain a ton of mana, which is then scaled with int too.