A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

you say afk is limited to aegis and AA, heres a vid of a 2H build using armour and evasion with no block, no flasks

http://www.twitch.tv/64521xw2/b/650915891

That's lunaris 2, if your AA Cloak build can't facetank that, I think we need to have some words =)



That's just AA and evasion in a 75 Bazaar.

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Chundadragon wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

you say afk is limited to aegis and AA, heres a vid of a 2H build using armour and evasion with no block, no flasks

http://www.twitch.tv/64521xw2/b/650915891

That's lunaris 2, if your AA Cloak build can't facetank that, I think we need to have some words =)



That's just AA and evasion in a 75 Bazaar.

youre popping health flask and jade flask and still losing life, if you dont pop any flasks and just stand there, you will die. You see any flasks being popped in that video? You see any situation where if I stand there for an hour, or 2 hours, or 3 hours I will ever die?

we were talking about afk, if I leave my mom aa witch afk in lunaris for an hour she will die, that armour ev char i can leave afk for a month and it wouldnt die.

edit: also you have an immortal call going off, I took my immortal call gem out at the start of that video, because its about looking at what the defenses are doing for you, not how long an immortal call you have, any build can IC.

The point is that is 3.4k life with only AA in a 75 map.

It's lunaris 2, my mum could sit in there for a month, talking about afking for a month, my strongest and most tankiest character ever couldn't do that since it uses Vaal Pact and has no regen :/

It's not really a good test ^.^

terrible idea, please don't do it. you guys already nerfed so much survivability, energy shield blocking dmg to mana makes absolutely no sense.

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Chundadragon wrote:

The point is that is 3.4k life with only AA in a 75 map.

It's lunaris 2, my mum could sit in there for a month, talking about afking for a month, my strongest and most tankiest character ever couldn't do that since it uses Vaal Pact and has no regen :/

It's not really a good test ^.^

its 3.4k life with AA in a lvl75 map and you would die if you just kept standing there much longer, your pots would run out and then you would die, so what are you proving? I thought AA could afk? Seems like it cant right? Thats exactly what I was saying.


Yes it is a good test, the question being posed was how good is MoM+AA vs other kinds of defense. Testing those defenses against each other is not saying whats the strongest character, oh well obviously 0 defense is better than MoM+AA because my 0 defense mirrored dagger spectral throw atziri gloves character can kill stuff faster than your MoM+AA shock nova build so 0 defense is obviously stronger than MoM+AA.... no that is a shit test, a proper test is not having immortal call, not using flasks, actually standing in front of different kinds of mobs and seeing how much damage you take with 1 set of defenses vs another, that is meaningful, and if you do it you will find that MoM+AA is bad compared to other defenses against just about anything other than a voidbearer.

Too many hardcore players think that 4 layered defences is tanky then lack DPS/grow overconfident and put themselves in a lot of danger. Tankiness =/= safety.

It's all about the right defences for the right build. Whether or not the change is positive, I think everyone agrees that 8k eHP on a flameblast builds with only Cloak and AA who can kill packs instantly and use IC is probably the safest build on Hardcore. In fact, it's been proven the safest build in hardcore by countless players hitting 100 with that build.

As for the 2h build, show the build doing that in a damage 78 map and I'll be impressed. Defences at those levels and areas just don't matter and show me nothing.

I wonder if 58 of 66 pages against this change make any difference this time...hardly doubt it sadly.

First I'm an eternal noob, i play since the beta, but i feel like i'm still a noob, so read "i'm bad at this game". But honestly i never managed to make a proper aa build without eb, which is what you guys are taking down with this mechanism? SO now we have to get uber gear with max mana/mana regen mods on all our gear to have a high level aa? In most of my build without eb it's maybe lv 5 aa max. I wouldn't care if those type of gears weren't so rare/expensive to come by (with other mods you need). Now i have to admit that high mana become a bit op because you will get aa and mom, if there is a problem it it here imo, this should be the focus or i'm missing something? If this is going to put aa on es/mana and mom only on es for ex or something like that then it's a good thing.

I think the change alone in a vacuum is hard to swallow. I do like the idea though of potentially opening up blood magic and regen mods on mapping for EB characters. A very positive change that.

It is hard to imagine using some of the mechanics EB supports without the combined mana pool. Needing to not only pick up the +maxMana and +manaregen, but potentially also needing to focus on +es and ES recharge rate is a pretty big hit and still wont approach the currently needed mana regen rates to even consider MoM (without going 2 or 3 mana flasks, a big trade off) never mind MoM on top of AA. Edit: Though energy shield recharge rate is very high so might not be to big of an issue for MoM, but would require getting out of the fire more. And zealots oath is an option I suppose, just a very weird tree set up.

Would we be able to leech Mana Shield? Would it take getting like Ghost reaver in addition to EB to add leech? Because I am envisioning situations where MoM keeps your mana shield pinned at 0 without some sort of leech, which might not be an issue or might be very detrimental to trying to open up things like blood magic map mods.

If this is basically focused on nerfing MoM + AA, just nerf mom or AA or the combo directly. But if the focus includes opening up more map options while making MoM + AA harder to layer onto other defenses it is hard to qualify in a vaccum.

Edit: So I see the edit saying ghost reaver will still apply to energy shield. So as is, this change will effectively create a situation where you are using life leech to leech mana. It works for me so things like blood magic + ele reflect maps would become runnable, but I would put the intuitive feel of using life leech to effectively leech mana pretty low on the intuition scale, while life leech gem also provides higher values than mana leech gems, which may be too strong? (zealots oath would use life regen values to gain mana shield?)

edit: If you must get ghost reaver to leech your mana shield (using life leech, mana leech currently has no way to affect energy shield), that will remove the option to leech life, which is a huge huge hit, EB builds till rely pretty hard on life leech and occasionally need mana and life leech simultaneously. Looks like it will have to be zealots oath and pick up basically every node in the tree with the word regenerate. Qarl's amulet looks like a very good option.

random thought: Would make the aegis shield useful for EB characters, while basically nerfing the effectiveness of defense it provides, pretty funny in my head.

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Darkrox wrote:

I wonder if 58 of 66 pages against this change make any difference this time...hardly doubt it sadly.

66 pages of mostly uninformed drivel. Half the thread was written before GGG even fully explained the mechanics. Furthermore, interpreting this change in a vacuum, without all the other changes, is pretty fucking pointless.