A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

"

Telzen wrote:

Really? I've been playing using a 4 link lightning trap and even with EB I have to spam mana pots like crazy. And I can't believe people are saying running CoD/AA comes at basically no cost. What kinda gear do these people have? I run a level 18 AA and use CoD on my templar and the amount of mana, mana regen, and es nodes I have to take is staggering, it leaves my damage pretty low.

exactly mate, I have no clue what they are talking about and I can only hope that the Devs actually understand more than a lot of the player base in this regard, I would hope so but honestly sometimes I wonder, I really do.

"

BananaJams wrote:

I was thinking about this a little bit and I thought it might be interesting if you "flipped" Mana and ES.

The character would use mana first and then go into the ES pool second.

This way the mechanics of ES actually make a little more sense. Your mana would act as the pool for auras and what not and have the regular regen but if you run out of mana you would dip into the ES pool. Once your ES pool is depleted you would have to wait that recharge time but your mana would be continually regening on top of that just in case you had to cast your skill to quickly get out of a situation.

This way we still reduce the power of MoM and high regen but give casters who do not have leech a chance to utilize both pools more effectively. You would dip into ES only in high stress moments instead of always having a depleted ES pool.

What do you guys think?

Edit - I would support the change if it was like this

The character would use mana first and then go into the ES pool second.

We still don't know what are the other changes in PoE 2.0, but based on the current tree, this suggestion seems to be a great idea...

Besides that, how about adding another passive behind EB that changes mana reservation for aura with flat reservation to reserve ES instead of mana?

I think that can be usefull for some builds especialy Cloak of defiance users, but why destroy actual EB and not add an other keystone.


With a new keystone, you could see how many would use the new one and the old one. And in with case they are both use.


I'm very happy with the actual EB and remove it his a bad new for me and my armor/es hybrid builds.

not bad, +1

It is already challenging enough to find end-game gear that also has a high mana-regen roll. In addition, it requires 230 to 280 (with Inner Force) mana-regen in order to even sustain AA; not including the cost of your active skills. Even so, AA only protects you against a lot of smaller hits, not large ones. Now with a much smaller mana pool, two things will likely happen:

1. Less available mana-regen.
2. Not able to allocate as mana auras, especially with the new, higher cost of Clarity.

Maybe with the addition of a mana-equivalent "Mortal Conviction" node, it could help balance these changes.

"

highwind123 wrote:

The point of this change is to nerf MoM/AA, and instead of nerfing that build directly, GGG chooses to nerf a whole mess of builds while at the same time making a simple keystone overly complicated.

Definitely not the way to go at it.

see, is it to nerf MoM/AA? And if so why?


Is the idea that MoM + AA is too strong? Because I would refute that idea completely and if the devs believe that I really wonder what game theyre playing because what Ive been playing 6 hours a day 7 days a week for the last 2 years is obviously a completely different game.


It is the idea that its not too strong, its just over used? Well that is because its the only realistic option, you want to change that then add more options, for example leaving eb the way it is and adding this as a new keystone "mana shield" or whatever. This doesnt stop it being the only option, just nerfs it by vastly increasing the already intensive investment to the point of insanity while leaving people with no alternative but to soak up the loss, or in a lot of cases just abandon their characters because it just wont be viable any more to play a lot of caster builds.


Is it the idea that COD is too used? Well the reason for that is MoM, the node, is inaccessible to 99.999% of casters, so just move MoM rather than destroying a massive portion of the builds in play surely? This doesnt stop COD being THE chest, it makes it even more important to have COD while being EB because now EB doesnt give you the ability to sustain AA, in fact EB pushes you into speccing ES that now does nothing for AA so taking EB without COD not only gives you no survivability but using COD instead will give you not only the ability to use the Es portion as survivability but will give you actual mana regen allowing you to use a higher level AA as well as having the benefit of the ES portion acting as a life pool, so it just makes COD more of a must have and puts rare chest armours even further out of the picture when it comes to speccing a viable life based caster. Like CantripN said the way % reserve works and the fact the es portion doesnt factor into reserve means using the ES portion as life through COD could actually be buffed by this, substantially buffed, while nerfing rares out of the equation... does that sound like shifting the meta away from COD? Sounds like the exact opposite to me.

good change imo;
+gives more percentile mana to allocate for auras in an EB MOM setting, while making Arctic armour less common and more difficult to use
+Putting points into faster start of es regen actually makes sense after this
+You can easily alter the amount of castable mana you have by swapping in more or less es in gear
+Interesting mechanic shift with zealot's oath, while before ZO + EB would just remove your life regen
+A very interesting game mechanical shift in a ZO + EB + MOM(cloak of defiance, because mehh not enough passive skill points) setup
+you can use discipline to gain more castable mana and ehp buffer in a eb+mom setting
-makes higher level of AA much more difficult to use
+Makes AA more likely to be used with high max mana% items like it probably was intented for


other changes i would like to see with a change like this:
+gate a life leech% from any damage/ele damage node behind zealot's oath
+more effective mana regen% nodes
+buff to clarity, (a change like this would probably make it less common and more likely to be used in conjuction with AA or higher mana cost skills in regular life-mana builds)
+buff faster start of es regen nodes
-less mana% nodes
-nerf discipline, but drop it's mana cost to 50% or 40%
+more mana% + es% nodes
+more mana% + life% nodes
+better life% + es% nodes
+a 60% aura that grants a good deal of critical strike and/or accuracy
+move mind over matter next to arcane chemistry like vaal pact is on the opposite side
+more & better reduced mana cost nodes

"

viperesque wrote:

I think we need some more info on what it actually does first! Does it base your ES off your mana, let you spend ES to pay costs, is it just a QoL change that moves your ES over there, ...?

This is what I was thinking. With what little you posted, Rory, It's not enough information to make any fair assessment. What you're describing is more accurately how I had imagined Eldritch Battery would function, but I think that the mana cost of Arctic Armour would need to be adjusted to compensate for what you're suggesting, if I'm interpreting your post correctly. A high level Arctic Armour is too difficult to support as is without a lot of investment in mana regeneration/gear to support and this change would really make it all the more difficult.

This could be extremely interesting if handled correctly.

I still believe zealoths oath + flat life regen modifiers on gear will be massive with this change for skill payment.

Which would render a currently useless mod to a utility state.

What i would change however is make the mana consumption dynamic.

The biggest pool suffers first sort of speak.

somebody with 800 mana and 600 ES would first utilize mana up to 201 points and then drain from ES/mana/es/mana rotate between them.

I would also allow ES to recharge when mana is being consumed.

Because if the pools are dynamicly drained (biggest pool suffers first) then the mana pool will be tapped repeatedly until the ES buffer becomes larger again. Creating interesting applications for MoM and other variants.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : i should also clarify that this is a hard exercise due to limited information Rory.

So i agree with most post's around that issue.

I don't play an EB char because it's the best. I would rather be playing an ultra high dps acuity crit character or a 15k+ ES CI char running mid level arctic armor off of stacked int. I play EB because it's the best within my budget. These changes in their current form completely gut my build.

I could put in the hours needed to acquire gear for a top tier non EB build but I won't. If these changes go through, this company won't get a single cent from me.