New Skill Development - Part 2

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Boem wrote:

But don't intentionally disregard why these gems where introduced to begin with simply to claim superiority.

You misconstrue me, and that's on me for the emotion I let get into my posts, so that's fair. Allow me to clarify: I'm not claiming superiority, but I am rather tired of the litany of posts (not just regarding cwdt-ec, but over the YEARS of this game) that make it apparent that certain players refuse to look at their own gameplay. In my personal experience I'd say that cwdt ec's never saved my ass, not when I think back about the death and try to figure out what I can do better to avoid dying in those situations. I guess if that makes me sound elitist, I'll live with that, but I grew up playing games that were outright designed to kill your character very often. In order to beat those games, you needed to figure out what you could do differently. I take that principle and apply it here. And simply wish more players would do the same.

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1) it facilitated better control during a fight, since endurance charges can be automatically generated which allows shifting priorities of focus.

2) it allowed desync/laag to happen without players actually being frustrated by it, since the cwdt ic combo saved them in vulnerable moments. (simply put, this allowed lean-way for GGG on this subject, since yeah it does exist, but yeah the effect's could be minimized "if build for it" sort of speak)

3) ranged kill speed vs melee kill speed. Cwdt allowed a melee character to be "on the move" much more and facilitated in bringing the gap closer between them, not that that gap is fixed or anywhere near an acceptable balance, but it did help. (in this regards, this will be a step back)

Neither am I disregarding the purpose of the gem setup and why it's been allowed for this long. What I meant was, I disagree that the setup was ever introduced in the first place, though I understand entirely WHY it was, which includes the reasons you've stated. Still: I'm glad for its removal. It's going to force better and more strategic play.

As for luck, I'll respectfully disagree. Good luck is opportunity meeting preparedness.

But like you say, this skill development insight isn't finished yet. There may be other automated ways to generate endurance charges that get introduced, similar to the counterattack gems.

If I understand the changes that makes to enduring cry, RIP echoing self cast enduring cry for getting charges.

You people need to listen to all the elite players in this thread and learn to play. Frogs leaping from off screen? L2p. Rhoas charging and desynching? L2p. 10 devourers hitting you in 0.5 seconds? L2p. Desynching and getting hit by what appears nothing to you? L2p. Some guys are talking like you can really move and avoid things in this game.

People saying the possible change to CWDT and EC + CI is risky are a bunch of idiots. The fact that there is horrid spike damage that even characters with 70-90% DR cant shake is what the problem is. Don't cry about these set ups being taken away and maybe start crying about mob balance or defense increases vs spike damage. Personally itll be a fun day in hell when we don't need the RRRR on gear, especially awful for ES based chars.

hmm I'd love making a shouter like back in diablo2! :D
and please make the sound of the war cries actually sound like cries/shouts

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Rusery wrote:

People saying the possible change to CWDT and EC + CI is risky are a bunch of idiots.

You should put that as your signature man,that's genious.

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Phish wrote:

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grepman wrote:

Lol at all the tears

Cwdt+ec+ic setup is a no-brainer for any build, and thus provides no choice. It's a fucking terrible thing when it's pretty much a REQUIRED 3/4L

Learn to play without it. Or you can still automate ic, self cast ec. oh boo fucking hoo "the game is slow". Laughable stuff. It's a tradeoff. You want reliable charges? Spend 0.25 secs casting the war cry.

This change will bring choices into the game. You shouldn't be getting EC AND IC for free.

The nerf cry is hilarious really. Here is GGG avoiding straight up nerf and taking care of existing problem by introducing a new group of gems and people are still unhappy. Poe will always be balanced around new temp leagues, deal with it.

WOW

so your saying that it reQuires a 3/4L anyway but then to make it where its not cwdt, but to actually press them. that will add 2 skill slots and still use atleast 3Link because of increased duration, so ya i would rather it just be cwdt then have to waste 2 skill slots and the links anyway. you must not play incinerate or melee builds when your getting swarmed or attacking a group of monsters taking the time to stop attacking and then self cast enduring cry to get ur charges up then to hit immortal call and trying to hit potions to save yourself, because your not hitting to get the life leech or lifegain on hit for your life is really great thinking

edit. So most builds even with cwdt ec ic id. still needs all there buttons for other skills that they need even a simple build

left mouse button to move
middle for auras since you can switch it out when casting and switching to leave a vaal aura like vaal haste
right mouse button arctic armor
then you got 5 keys to use
1 main skill
2 curse
3 lightning warp or moving skill
4 blood rage
5 vaal discipline.

now i gotta make room to go back and cast ic and ec waste of keys and it restricts players back to going to builds were it focuses on 1 skill or just limits them in general, but the only thing is true we still don't know the full plan of GGG. Hopefully they got something planned i'm not trying to be hateful, but it really pushes me away from a survivable and theoretical point.

I dont want to speak for GGG or Grepman, but I believe the point of the changes are to make more meaningful choices. There are other ways to get End Charges besides that 1 skill. You have 8 buttons to use, 3 mouse buttons and 1-5. I've never had a problem fitting everything in (you are also assuming every build uses blood rage and vaal Discipline). If you needed to have your auras on a key for it to work, I can understand the complaint, but you don't.

With the type of game PoE is, they want you to make meaningful choices. The fact that EVERY build uses CDWT-EC-IC-ID, tells GGG there is a problem. This is the same response when every build used HoL for autocursing. They changed the CoH trigger gem.

Even burning 2 keys for EC and IC, there should be plenty of room for other skills and utility. You are also wasting your left mouse button for move only. I personally like to use left mouse for single target (Hold shift to not move), and right mouse for AoE.

This is a much needed change and makes us think of gear and gem combo choices even more closely. Meta is going to change. We also don't know of any other new uniques which will be released with 1.4. Maybe some of them will help with charges. Let's see the entire picture before we harp on one change.

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Jaxom wrote:

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Phish wrote:

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grepman wrote:

Lol at all the tears

Cwdt+ec+ic setup is a no-brainer for any build, and thus provides no choice. It's a fucking terrible thing when it's pretty much a REQUIRED 3/4L

Learn to play without it. Or you can still automate ic, self cast ec. oh boo fucking hoo "the game is slow". Laughable stuff. It's a tradeoff. You want reliable charges? Spend 0.25 secs casting the war cry.

This change will bring choices into the game. You shouldn't be getting EC AND IC for free.

The nerf cry is hilarious really. Here is GGG avoiding straight up nerf and taking care of existing problem by introducing a new group of gems and people are still unhappy. Poe will always be balanced around new temp leagues, deal with it.

WOW

so your saying that it reQuires a 3/4L anyway but then to make it where its not cwdt, but to actually press them. that will add 2 skill slots and still use atleast 3Link because of increased duration, so ya i would rather it just be cwdt then have to waste 2 skill slots and the links anyway. you must not play incinerate or melee builds when your getting swarmed or attacking a group of monsters taking the time to stop attacking and then self cast enduring cry to get ur charges up then to hit immortal call and trying to hit potions to save yourself, because your not hitting to get the life leech or lifegain on hit for your life is really great thinking

edit. So most builds even with cwdt ec ic id. still needs all there buttons for other skills that they need even a simple build

left mouse button to move
middle for auras since you can switch it out when casting and switching to leave a vaal aura like vaal haste
right mouse button arctic armor
then you got 5 keys to use
1 main skill
2 curse
3 lightning warp or moving skill
4 blood rage
5 vaal discipline.

now i gotta make room to go back and cast ic and ec waste of keys and it restricts players back to going to builds were it focuses on 1 skill or just limits them in general, but the only thing is true we still don't know the full plan of GGG. Hopefully they got something planned i'm not trying to be hateful, but it really pushes me away from a survivable and theoretical point.

I dont want to speak for GGG or Grepman, but I believe the point of the changes are to make more meaningful choices. There are other ways to get End Charges besides that 1 skill. You have 8 buttons to use, 3 mouse buttons and 1-5. I've never had a problem fitting everything in (you are also assuming every build uses blood rage and vaal Discipline). If you needed to have your auras on a key for it to work, I can understand the complaint, but you don't.

With the type of game PoE is, they want you to make meaningful choices. The fact that EVERY build uses CDWT-EC-IC-ID, tells GGG there is a problem. This is the same response when every build used HoL for autocursing. They changed the CoH trigger gem.

Even burning 2 keys for EC and IC, there should be plenty of room for other skills and utility. You are also wasting your left mouse button for move only. I personally like to use left mouse for single target (Hold shift to not move), and right mouse for AoE.

This is a much needed change and makes us think of gear and gem combo choices even more closely. Meta is going to change. We also don't know of any other new uniques which will be released with 1.4. Maybe some of them will help with charges. Let's see the entire picture before we harp on one change.

not true i was just implenenting a build that uses all 8 keys there are other builds like rangers that use split arrow rain of arrows and puncture or other setups that do use all 8 keys. all im saying is that people make builds to use best and all of what they got to work with. I have a friend back in d2 who used all 16 keys for on a summon necro it was her playstyle. not saying everyone did that. but the point is to make it simple enough to help players deal with the game and to use what they got. if cwdt helps and makes it easier to live and to have it casted.

About utility thats your play style everyone has a playstyle they like especially players who been playing this game for a while. yes this is meta, things will change and actually the cwdt saves lives i just really started to use it because it works.

i wasnt hating really it just made sense like if someone makes a build that uses 2 different main skills like for a ele eQuilibrium build to use 2 different skills.

so yes since every build needs it your saying theres a problem well hopefully there fixing the problem also if people assume that just because people use something that works means its broken. or if a skill is over powered they camplain to have it nerf.

i am leaving in devs hands but if something works and its not over powering then dont change it. but who knows what the future holds. been playing since end of 2011 back before act 3 im ready for change but not things that help players survive and change there way of playing or making chrs in a bad way, but we dont know all the changes.

i know i will be hated, but GGG REALLY SHOULD KEEP STUFF LIKE THIS UNDER THERE HAT. JUST SO THEY DONT GET A POST OF HATE BECAUSE THEY DONT TELL US EVERYTHING AND SHOULD JUST KEEP IT TILL EVERYTHING IS ALL TOGETHER. AND LIKE THEY SAID ITS IN THE WORKS WICH MAY NOT EVEN GET PUT INTO THE GAME. THIS GAME IS STILL NEW EVEN AFTER 4 YEARS. CHANGE WILL HAPPEN. I AM NOT FULLY HATING I JUST HATE THE CHANGE.

also the ones hating the setup. SHOULD ALSO HATE THE CAST ON DEATH SETUPS ALSO BECAUSE THERE SHOULD BE NO POINT IN MAKING A BUILD JUST TO DIE. AND KILL EVERYTHING WHEN IT DOES.

PEOPLE ARE ALL DIFFERENT PEOPLE PLAY GAMES DIFFERENT. THINK DIFFERENT. BUT I ALWAYS SUPPORT GGG I MAY NOT LIKE ALL CHANGES OR SOME GEMS OR ITEMS. IF I DONT THEN I JUST WONT USE THEM.

I LIKE THE STORY LINE PLAYING POE WITH FRIENDS THIS IS AN AWESOME GAME EVEN WHEN LAG GETS ME FRUSTRATED.

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Serleth wrote:

I am awesome, you should all just play better

Luckily, PoE doesn't balance their game around the top 1% of players.

It'll be interesting to see how they work this. I'm cautiously optimistic about it and will just run artic armor and or MoM if CWDT/EC/IC gets killed.

umm... that's a minor but

-26% movement speed / or 26% reduced movement speed

Unless you want to increase their speed because double negative is positive.

same with other stat.