New Skill Development - Part 2
I think if they made Enduring Cry non-triggerable without significant other reworking of burst phys damage mobs, I'd just quit playing the game entirely, for one simple reason: I'm sick and tired of being nerfed over and over and over again.
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well yup there goes my defensive build for a caster i wont be running 2 cast on damage taken setups with enduring cry immortal call and my other one cast on damage taken enduring cry and molten shell. i finally get a good defensive build for a caster and it gets rekt in the future.
but i do like that idea for that warcry because in parties the main tank can hold aggro or cause monsters to attack him and keep focus on him. but how about one like. Gives increased energy shield/life/mana depending on how many monsters surrounding you. maybe one that absorbs a percentage of the damage as mana life or energy shield. but again cast when damage taken+ enduring cry immortal call and increased duration does help sQuishy chrs at low levels or less geared characters survive better. so the ones i see you making mostly benefit melee characters, because abyss will help focus monsters on the melee chr to help keep them from running and can help with hitting them to keep there life leech or life gain on hit up faster. but just another thing us players gotta work around and cant wait for act 4 and more content way to go GGG YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME rawrawr
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On the idea of [name]Cry gems, I think it's great and really looking forward to what comes out.
Ok, let's chip in my two proverbial cents to the whole CwDT-EC-IC-(ID) debate/debacle. They way I see it, that combo is a necessary evil. I don't like Immortal Call from a design perspective, but I feel it's needed. I'm not a hardcore player, but if I was I'd never run a character without that setup, the random damage spikes (leapers, rohas, devourers, etc.) would make the (probably short) run miserable. But I freely admit I'm highly average at this game. If you feel this somehow invalidate my opinions, feel free to just ignore this. This ties in to many things, so a friendly warning, this is probably going to be a long post. My random ramblings are in the spoiler if anyone have the stamina to read it. These are just my thoughts on the matter, these aren't intended to be aimed at anyone specific, because this is inspired of this 15+ pages of a read-through as well as accumulated multiplayer forum experience over the years.
Spoiler
Promoting build diversity or not? On one hand, relying on The Combo on every single character would be an unhealthy trend in the diversity of builds played, I can admit that. On the other hand, with the damage spikes that exist in the game, how many character builds can be played on Hardcore really? The popularity of certain defensive items speaks volumes to the state of PoE gameplay. Don't get me wrong, I like this game a lot. But I fear that GGG removing/nerfing overused defensive tech is the wrong way to go about it. Unless they want a game that can randomly decide to instagib you without it being your fault. Given that they've been open about seeing desynch as a problem and recently fixed boxes to gradually spawn monsters, that seems unlikely. I feel more builds can be played with The Combo and if it goes away, fewer builds will be viable, especially for melee. "Get better, scrub": This schism in the player base you'll find in pretty much any multiplayer game. I've seen it in StarCraft, in World of Warcraft, DotA 2, you name it. It's the age old balance between Accessibility and Difficulty. The easier the game, the more people can play it. The harder the game, the more enjoyable for people wanting a challenge. I constantly marvel at the inane complaints from people who can't seem push three buttons in sequence to the "elitists" who's egos seemed three-linked in a "Skill"-"Personal Worth"-"Judgemental Attitude" setup. I'm of course no different, I'm somewhere on this scale. Too easy a game, it's not fun to play. Too hard a game, same thing. It's like Birth, Death and Boredom, it's a Universal Constant. "It makes the game too easy" Absolutely nothing forces you to play the game using The Combo. If you feel it makes the game too easy, don't use it. If your argument is that "I'd be dumb not to use it as long as it's available", then consider that there are people who do use it/rely on it. Disregarding for a minute whether or not it's necessary to avoid insta-gibbing to random damage spikes, wanting GGG to remove The Combo because it makes the game "too easy" will naturally make it "too hard" for others. Compare to map crafting for a second here. You can control the mods on a map, given time and the currency. The more difficult a map, the better the rewards. Good players can run very hard maps. Average players probably can't. That's completely fine and how it should be IMO. In that situation, it's up the player to decide for him/herself how difficult of a game he/she wants to play. We have a softcore/hardcore setting for that specific purpose. It seems to me a tad. . . petty to basically say "I don't want to have to choose, so remove this choice for me please. Anyone liking that other choice should be forced to like mine, because they're wrong the way they play the game". Heck, maybe actually make a map mod where Immortal Call is disabled and slap a juicy quantity mod on it, that could tickle the palate for some players. I'd actually like to see that in game. Wouldn't run them, but I'd appreciate that the choice was there for the people who felt they could take it. "Making stupid decisions kills you". Somewhat true. I YOLO-Alch'ed a map the other day to have "Players have Blood Magic" on it. Upon going into the map, I had less than 700 HP due to reserving so much of my mana normally from buffs. Had I died there (quickly decided to not run that map), that would have been on my shoulders. Running headfirst into a mob with reflect and spikes on death without looking at their mods, stupid decision. I did that once. Never again. Lag spikes, desynchs, out-of-vision leapers, none of those are a result of your own actions. I'll take full responsibility for my actions if they get my character killed. Those things aren't. Remember that it doesn't mean shit that your reaction speed is up to par if there's a technical delay somewhere along the line. And while I'm at it, being a softcore player says absolutely nothing about how good or bad you are at the game. It only says you don't enjoy permadeath. Inferring anything else is a logical fallacy. General assumptions can be made, definitive statements can not. |
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" I think you missed the part where they said that if they remove the cast tag, they'll need to consider adding war cry specific support gems. So, there might just end up with a spell echo equivalent or other support gems. Expect some "added for pvp" support gems, to be honest, if they go that way. |
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" BUFF ARMOUR U F F A R M O U R without the 4 link you'll limit physical damage builds to vaal pact only reflect and punishment instakils are also a cheap mechanics that should be nerfed then remember iron maiden? 1.4 will see vaal pact go from keystone to corner stone if it isn't already Let the games begin Last edited by whineston#5435 on Feb 17, 2015, 10:03:19 AM
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well ggg must be fixing lag/desync problems also with the act 4 comming up, but like other said they either like it or hate it, but everyone pretty much uses it, because it saves lives with out of sinc with the game and devourers and other creatures that can hit us fast and hard. but really you guys will need to give us more sockets since auras can be turned on then switched for a new spot on the skill panel for the 3 mouse and keyboard keys. but maybe adding pants for a 6link or belt for more links. bc right now its very limited and since the old cwdt setup aint going to work then something will need to be added to the game to help give us more options. it seems some builds are good with working with multiple skills like runing traps and a main power skill like flameblast and firetrap or rangers with punture trap and there main skills usually tornado shot or sometimes with a 3rd like rain of arrows. but for buttons if we only got the 3 mouse buttons and most use the left click as move only then the middle as a buff like artic armor or bloodrage and having the right as a buff or a main attack. then you couldnt have cdwt up showing so no worries there that saved it for imortal call and enduring cry. which now puts those back up so thats 4 or 5 skill slots right there depending on your build. not every build is an op spectral throw build with just turning auras on and using one attack button and kill everything. having the cdwt ec ic helped us not just with lag but build set ups that stop us from hitting or keeping up with other skills at higher levels maps if you dont have a overpowered build monsters packs that can stun/lock you and able to show up during times when your out of sync helps with response. it saves lifes and time. and keeps it moving faster pace without hitting or keeping up with skills on timers. also it helps the older generation living also who dont have younger people response time. ik a 60 year old man that plays this game and i know he struggles he plays melee characters and the cwdt setup helps him or on any chr he plays. you gotta also think of the players overall not the ones that are rich in game or out of game that can aford the best comps. but overall every area of player base age/computers/everything.
i know some people hate that setup and only reason is i can think of the lack of gem slots. so after reading and thinking about it all that setup is needed for the game. but theres probably more changes that we dont know about. so to save your guys a headache greif annoying posts and comments and i know you are putting things like this out there to let us know whats up. just keep it to yourself it will help everyone. then let it out explain why it will work with other things, so people that don't know the future just what you show us can see the big picture. I would rather you guys wait and make all changes add all content and show us at one time, so were not trying to give anyone a headache and wonder why you guys are doing things, but to just see how it plays out as you just release it. rawrawr
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Hmm, i think the cwdt-ic-ec setup is becoming less and less of a balance issue with time.
Its automatically balanced by the release of other new, powerful and interesting gem setup that vie for the same slots. Being around since open beta these decisions have become more and more interesting. In addition to your main skill you might want - an aura setup (or two) - a curse-on-hit (herald) setup - a vaal skill to deal with bosses (offensive or defensive) - a cwdt setup against physical (maybe also a high one with Molten Shell) - a cwdt setup against getting surrounded (skele/decoy) - a counterattack setup for utility (pcoc/endmelstun/leech or more coh ability) - a single target attack (power siphon + kinetic for instance) - a second (or third) set of summons - a movement skill setup - a setup to generate extra charges (echo-cry, frenzy, spear-pcoc, etc) - a righteous fire setup - a utility totem (flame-gmp-blind-kb comes to mind) - a no-look-back second form of damage (searing bond, fire trap) - a setup for elemental equilibrium (cwdt-ice nova, counterattack skill with ele dmg on gear) - leftovers (arctic armor, self cast curse, blood rage, convocation, etc) - et cetera as long as i dont have pants or socks to wear all of this on every character i'll have plenty of strategical choices that make me mix and match what's best for a particular character. If you're still wondering, cwdt-ic-ec gets cut or eaten into quite often. [edit]@ phish above me, fun to see that our lines of thought lead to exactly the opposite solution :)[/] Last edited by Toverkol#3305 on Feb 17, 2015, 9:48:41 AM
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" Actually forgot how annoying that was as incinerate... To make EC/IC castable while attacking/casting would be one solution to the problem. As for self casing and burst damage you could solve this to some extent by increasing duration of EC so it's easier to maintain charges between packs. This still leaves one of the more annoying designs in game though, off-screen charging/leaping, on top of the problem that you can't generate charges at the start of a map without monsters. Phys reflect is still going to be an issue at higher levels for a lot of builds though. Edit: And devourers should be changed to spawn similarly to the new strongbox spawns, always at range from the trigger position so we have a means to choose how to engage them. This should solve any issues with being cornered by them and the horrible mechanic of their initial "melee" hit. Edit2: Another thing that comes in to focus with more manual EC/IC casting is how desperately we need a buff tracker in this game. Trying to keep track of your charges and IC duration on some builds is an absolute nightmare. In game contact @MajorAsshole Challenge T-Shirt: 4/6 | Full Challenge Totems: 21/27 Last edited by Redblade#3843 on Feb 17, 2015, 10:33:15 AM
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cwdt + end cry fix = not big deal
spell echo + end cry fix = FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu |
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Abyssal Cry + Vaal Cyclone => FUN
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