Vaal Fragment Changes in 1.2.4d

Another great idea. Keep them coming GGG!!!

I corrupt all my higher level maps so this is a nice bonus to how I normally map.

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PsOfOs wrote:

I don't know what build you play but half of the high maps i have vaaled turned unplayable due to insane mods. Even the map itself isn't guaranteed to remain the same after vaal. I can do this for fun,but not for getting vaal fragments.
Most people aren't opposite to this change,who ever wants can vaal their maps. It's just not an alternative to farming docks. Not everyone has insane builds and endless currency.
Unplayable courtyard is 1 ex and 1 vaal lost. The risk is too high for the reward.

My main is RF and ,as you know, this is the worst possible build for Vaaling maps:P. I am an old player though so I do have a level 90 CoC alt plus a few 85+ toons that can run Vaaled maps. Vaaling 78's is not the best idea although I was doing it anyway to get the 79s. Best tactic would be to Vaal 74-75 maps (with easy bosses obv like Gorge). Vaaling maps is of course a bit of a gamble if your map pool isn't big but still it's far better than running around tidal 1000 times to get 10 pieces.
Don't forget that the players that farm Fragments can be:
1) Not capable of running Atziri but wanting to trade midnights for currency. Archives,Tidal are still available for them
2) Players that are not experienced but can farm Atziri because they copied some Atziri compatible build from the internet.These players will indeed have problems running Vaaled maps because they just don't have a balanced build or the game knowledge to run tricky maps without getting owned. These are usually the people complaining about vaaling maps
3) Experienced players (like you and me) that can run most maps. If you are rich enough then you vaal 77-78s. Sure some will be a waste but who cares. If you're not extremely rich then you vaal lower maps and you're still not forced to run docks,tidal etc.
GGGs solution is targeting the third category which is by the way the players that should play Atziri. All the rest are irrelevant and can cry all day as far as I'm concerned:P

It's great that the developers have acknowledged the problem and are clearly considering solutions, its one of the many reasons we love this game. As for the solution itself at best its a sensible tweak that adds a few options (carto boxes and top player map vaaling), but unless vaal orb drops go back to what they were it simply won't be effective, as vaal orbs are just too rare unfortunately. Still, hopefully the amount of feedback will show that although we appreciate the effort we don't think it will be effective enough, unless something changes. Also we don't know how Act 4 will pan out and if it will offer a more seamless way to integrate Atziri.

Having said that, this seemed a bit unfortunate:

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It was intentional that Vaal Fragments didn't drop in the existing end-game (or from bosses people already run like Piety or Dominus), because we designed the content to be an alternative end-game activity. If we had them drop while players were running regular maps then they'd merely stockpile them and occasionally get some free Atziri runs out of their existing play. We want players to have several options of how to spend their time.

I don't think practically anybody considers sacrifice farming a real alternative to end game play (considering the much lower level), and does it out of necessity/'financial' reasons, and buying sac sets from noobs/'exploiters' hardly seems like a healthy option for the game. At the end of the day Atziri should be an option of how to spend time, and funnily enough the above statement actually suggests the most natural way for this to happen!! (ie the player could chose to do some atziri runs when in the mood or sell their sets/pieces giving others this same option). So the question remains why no CZ in maps (or master missions)? Also, i personally ended up liking the invader bosses and their variety/areas and its a real pity this variety has almost disappeared from the game. Furthermore, what's the difference of running vaald maps compared to CZ appearing in maps? None, except the variety in areas would have been nice and the bosses would be really challenging, not to mention frequency of CZ would be easy to control.

By the way the way Uber is gated I think there is little problem with more players getting a go at Atziri, especially as leagues seem to be getting shorter. Normal Atziri should be a reasonable aim for most relatively dedicated players, but on the other hand I don't think players should be able to do it all day and every day, there's no variety in that.

Still, corrupted maps now with a bit extra motivation is better than what we had before, so I guess at least I appreciate the extra feature and hope my feedback (like others) will be of some value.

Maybe bosses of normal maps should have chance to drop corrupted maps...

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SL4Y3R wrote:

They're different endgame paths. If you want to do what you proposed, you simply vaal some maps/run low lvl content/ by the sets.

They don't want to integrate the two, because it's not meant to be seamless. Otherwise, they wouldn't be different. As an example, I'm in the same boat you are. I like to do a little of both. When I get bored mapping, I'll go and do some atziri runs. I can still do this, and since I already vaal maps for fun, I get a little bit closer to my atziri runs without having to farm docks etc.

It's like playing towards a goal. The entire point of endgame in ARPGs is basically to keep players playing. Doesn't matter what the activity is. Be it PvP, high end bosses, mapping, raiding, etc.

At the end of the day, atziri loses her endgame stature if players just gain access for doing things they already would be doing.

So are you saying Atziri is 'endgame' because she is hard to kill or because she is hard to find?

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grosz3k wrote:

Maybe bosses of normal maps should have chance to drop corrupted maps...

Jackpot! :)

Easy to appropriately rng gate and thematically plausible, avoids vaal orb drop issues and they would also be probably quite challenging and risky, especially if run unid. (whether it'd be worth it is another issue).

You can buy a fragment with a Vaal orb is any league. While corrupting maps can sometimes yield positive results it, more often than not, bricks the map.

In order for this to work you have to 1) increase the frequency that Vaal orbs drop or 2) add a recipe for Vaal orb that doesn't involve a using a fragment. Corrupting carto would have been a viable option pre-nerf but they are so few and far in between that it is a luxury at best (and will probably only happen in 66-75 maps).

I like the effort here and love the direction it is moving in. I hope you guys have future plans to alter things further to make things a little more "user friendly"...or, at the very lease, not strictly a waste of currency.

Questions:
1) Can only bosses drop the fragments or is the fragment roll for any unique mob in the map? Rouge exiles?
2) If a map spawns multiple bosses (courtyard for example) do each of the bosses have an equal chance to drop or are they 1/3 the chance per boss to be equal to a 1 boss map?
3) Can the Invasion boss from the Zana mod roll a fragment?

All of these I feel are very important to whether or not this is even worth doing over the other existing methods. If 1 Vaal orb had the possibility to yield more than one fragment it would be more worthwhile from a currency value standpoint.

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Iluvatar_gr wrote:

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Sirais wrote:

you talk about Stuff getting boring, but there are still only 2 78 Maps, 2 77 maps, and 3 76 maps (the others dont realy count anymore afaik) so the whole endgame is in 4 (7 if you count 76's too) different maps that need to be done thousand of times.

not much different from Fal fragment farming/grinding ....

During the last months the main request of an extremely large number of POE players was this: "GGG I don't want to get distracted from my end game content(maping) and get forced to farm low level areas for Vaal fragments in order to do Atziri"
GGG has just implemented Vaal frag drops in end game content and yet you still complaining. I will not look at your past posts but I'm pretty sure I could find your name in several of the threads that were asking for Vaal drops in maps. Same goes for most of the people complaining here.
Whatever

You really dont get it? Now instead of gating it behind a first layer of hunting for a rare zone in low level areas, they are gating also behind a rare orb drop. On top of that its not even a guarantee to get a drop, and most likely will NOT be any BONUS drops of more then just 1. IF they make do this, and make it a very high chance of dropping, but has chance to randomly drop more then 1, then maybe it wont be so bad.

That being said the even easier fix would be to bring back the front zones like Sarn, and fix there spawn rates BACK to where they were just before FM was released.

Or they could just make them static zones in preset zones, so we always know where they are, this would remove the first horrific level of gated range.


Also just want to say, when Atziri was released, I honestly thought corrupted maps would drop these, along with corrupted items, and remember asking in forums why this wasn't so, since it was sensible they did, never got an answer.

Does this insignificant garbage little change at least also apply to Zana's slay-the-corrupt-boss-maps?

I think Thematically this makes sense and in light of how fragments are farmed now it is a generally welcomed change. However, I do have some concerns....


For 1 Vaal Orbs do not drop enough to make this a fun addition. I think you should make 1 simple change. Allow corrpted mobs(like the ones from master quests) to have a GREATLY increased chance to drop a vaal orb on top of their current chances anywhere.


2ndly this change creates an even further gap in the new leagues between those who get high level fast and those who dont. People who get 70+ in a day will have the market somewhat cornered on vaal skillgems. That isnt healthy to the economy imho.


3rdly The greatest value to many vaal orbs is that they are great for leveling and now they wont be available at all for many 1st characters in new leagues. I think that is a shame. For many of us who have been playing this game since the dawn of time, Normal and cruel needs things to keep it fun and vaal spark, vaal storm call, vaal reave, etc all help do this.