Support.
" They should "get better" the first few times they are hit with a probation. Standard Forever
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" You make no sense. The system in place is in place because Support staff believes in the ability of deviant users to get better or move along. Your suggested system (even quoting the LOL corrupted and toxic popularity-driven system) is not living up to your own expectation. It's really like you want to be permanently removed for shitposting instead of getting a claps now and then. Masochist much? Last edited by Nightmare90#4217 on Jul 24, 2014, 8:15:59 AM
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" And if they don't.. are : community Support GGG going to be upset? ('feelings') GGG has explained why Desync is a complicated issue, yet every now and then you can read a desync thread and kill-joy comments on page 1 of announcement about desync. This is a relatively unwanted behavior(not punishable true but..) yet no one should be upset. Let them do what they want to do until they get bored. " Let's say you put your finger on fire. The fire itself contains about the same amount of destructive damage overall, by itself. Now if someone keeps touching it and getting small hits, he will eventually start to feel a greater pain, no? (cells being detroyed little by little, Destructive energy gathering until fire sets on the finger) I want to see a forum user to educate himself just by repeating NORMAL PROBATIONS until he start feeling greater pain(He actually do not want to be prevented from bumping his trade threads, he wants to discuss peacefully some new poe HYPE, he wants to make a suggestion..) Right now Greater probations = the fire becomes greater each time your finger touch it. No let the skin/user feels the pain/probation by it/himself. No need to expand the probation/fire. Last edited by InexRising#5976 on Jul 24, 2014, 8:31:43 AM
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" Now let us use your analogy for maybe you'll understand the underlying issue: Imagine there are people who feel only a tickle when touching said fire. Maybe they got a tough skin, maybe their pain perception is far off, either way, their complete hand is on fire and they simply don't care. They won't stop touching others with their burning hands, thou because they think it's funny how the others react to fire. They only start to get mildly conscious when they fully ignite. You claim to be all human around your suggestion but you seem to dismiss that people have significantly different perception. The 1 week probation might seem a strong point for one user but a weak one for another user. To reeducate that other user, that especially deviant user, you'll need to pull bigger guns. The suggestion you made was that we put all users equally on strong fire for their first action. This would lead to much frustration given that people not conscious of a certain rule in place will be outright banned for the misbehavior they did not knew anything about. You would burn out many casual offenders and strong, deviant offenders will reign free. Good job! If you still don't understand this with your own chosen example, I can't really help anymore, sorry. I can see craving for more justice but the suggested system is not just, especially not if not executed on straight rules but only the guidelines given in the ToU support needs to work with. A ToU nobody reads on top of that. Last edited by Nightmare90#4217 on Jul 24, 2014, 8:57:20 AM
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" How are you trying to make this about feelings? Its a strategy to keep players from consistently ignoring the rules. It doesn't have anything to do with feelings. If a player ignores the rules then he deserves the consequences. Its not complicated. Standard Forever
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" I think that almost everyone here has agreed that this does not need to be changed at all. So far this is looking like a one person crusade against the rest. This is assuming this topic isn't just an example of trolling. |
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The act of disobeying Forum Guidelines/Terms of Service is not a forum mechanic, it is a punishable offence.
The act of dying in Path of Exile is not an offence, it is a game mechanic with set consequences(League Transfer/XP Loss) A mechanic with consequences is not the same as a punishable offence, this is where your analogy falls apart. Yes there are similarities, (Do thing, bad thing happen) but ultimately they are different at a core level. "so you can see who has more PvPenis" - Chris Wilson
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Spoiler
" You don't believe in common sense? Well I live in a country that has a government with common sense. When somebody steals something from a shop he will get a fine for example, this is to give him the chance to learn it was wrong. If he does it a second time the fine is higher, maybe the third time again higher but there will be a point he will go to jail. And I live in Holland where justice is soft on criminals. Same goes for driving a car: Driving and drinking will get you a fine, the second time maybe the same fine. But there will be a point you will be sent to an education about alcohol which you have to pay for. Maybe you don't believe in this, but most of the world believes in systems like this. Like somebody else already told you: It's you against the rest... And yes, if you're asking for a policy change at least have the balls to explain what happened that got you on probation so you have a proper motivation. That's the way discussions work, what you're doing is not debating but crying, just throwing around random WTF statements and comparing bans with players dying. I'm not even discussing your statements, I'm just completely disqualifying you and your silly post. Just for fun and to see if you might come with another hilarious response full of BS reasoning so I can have a laugh. You think that more time on probation for not listning has anything to do with the feelings of the person putting you on probation? Rrrrreaaalllyyy???? Man they are just following a default forum policy. Last edited by Startkabels#3733 on Jul 24, 2014, 12:46:36 PM
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Laughable thread is laughable.
What you're suggesting, OP, is that the best way to manage a forum is by cold, absolute adherence to the exact letter of the law. You're suggesting that people who consistently post ridiculous, off-topic, antagonistic shit just aren't given the opportunity to get better. You're suggesting that these people have the emotional maturity to become a better forum citizen by being given the same punishment as those who are making their first infraction. Seriously, you cannot be that detached from reality to believe that internet trolls are merely victims of an oppressive system of moderation, and not their own (repeated) bad behavior. Edit: maybe went too far with this comment. Removed. A comprehensive, easy on the eyes loot filter: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1245785 Need a chill group exiles to hang with? Join us: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1251403 Last edited by Antnee#4468 on Jul 24, 2014, 1:37:16 PM
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"I do my best to assume people aren't trolling, and respond to them as such. Sometimes you get pleasantly surprised because an initial post that seems trolly was actually just the result of poor wording or lack of language skills, and something good can come from it - useful discussion or the poster can learn about something. And in the other case, being reasonable about things to an unreasonable person costs me at most a few minutes of typing. The good case has occurred more often than I'd expected (if less often than I'd like), and enough to convince me that for the most part it's worth continuing this way. A point for consideration: Inex, do you believe that there's any room at all in the system of responding to posters breaking the rules for support to merely warn a player that an action they've taken is against the rules? Because I definitely do. I think someone could genuinely not know the rules (in an ideal world, of course, everyone would read the rules before posting, but I'm not naive enough to believe that'll happen), and could do something which, though against the rules, isn't serious enough to warrant any action more than a warning that it's against the rules and they should thus refrain from doing it in future. I like that our system can be that lenient when appropriate. But under your system where no previous actions can be taken into account, and repeated actions must receive the same punishment every time, warnings can't exist. Because the basic nature of a warning is such that it must be escalated on the next offence. Saying "This is against the rules, so please don't do it again or we'll have to do X" is a warning. Saying "This is against the rules, so please don't do it again or we'll send you this exact message again" is not a warning by any reasonable working definition. And the warning doesn't work as a warning unless it actually is followed up with X the next time that rule is broken (or at least, while it might work on that particular user, not following up warnings as policy means users as a whole will learn warnings aren't followed up on, which removes the point). To put it in another context, I have no problems with a policeman being able to pull someone over for speeding, point out how fast they were going over the limit, and then let them off with a warning not to do it again. I do have a problem with the kind of person who, on being given such a warning, speeds past the same cop 10 minutes later and when presented with a fine says "WTF is this bullshit, last time I did the same thing I just got a warning, how can you justify giving me a fine now just because it's a second time?" EDIT: I'd also just like to remind people - just in case, I'm not saying this has been a problem so far - to keep it as general as possible in here. While I think there's some merit in discussing broadly why certain methods of moderation could or could not be useful and their consequences, specific discussion of how Support handles/handled a particular case or set of cases isn't allowed on the forums for good reason. I'd prefer not to see this thread reach a point where it's considered to cross the line, and I respect that I'm not the one who gets to draw that line, and will stand by any support member's decision should they believe this thread has crossed it. So lets try to keep as far from the line as we can while we continue to discuss this. Last edited by Mark_GGG#0000 on Jul 24, 2014, 10:22:45 PM
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