Support.

Inex. your example is still completely innacurate for what you are comapring.

Unless you are purposely trying to die, when it occurs it was not your goal. It is not the thing you entered the instance trying to do. It is not your INTENT


There is also the aspect that dying only effects you.

There is also the fact that dying is not against the ToU, it is a game mechanic

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

InexRising wrote:

You( or SUPPORT) must not have 'feelings'. Rules must be 'somehow' clear, a 4-d probation action should deserve 4-d probation or less. No more punishement is appropriate.

If you give a forum user more than that because he does not want to understand and keep doing it again, then you(SUPPORT) are having 'feelings'

You've provided no evidence, reasoning, or explanation as to why this is in any way related to "feelings", and as such I reject that claim.

Allow me to break it down further.

X is against the rules.

User A does X. This warrants some action (punishment/warning/whatever).

User A is instructed not to do X again.

User A has been told not to do X, and does X anyway.
- User A has done X. This warrants some action (punishment/warning/whatever).
- User A has disobeyed a direct instruction. This also warrants some action (punishment/warning/whatever).

In the second case, A has done more wrong, because in addition to doing X, they've also done something else wrong by failing to follow an instruction. Thus a greater total response may be required/appropriate.

If someone doesn't understand this above here, that person's beyond help. Like, seriously totally beyond help.

That person has also never once in their life ever held a position of authority that required rules enforcement.

Oddly i still have an answer. The way i see it that there is still an analogy to make:




Rules of surviving Area 23 are similar to Forum guidelines.
Rules of the game are similar to rules of "playing/living" forum.

The game is:
1-leveling
2-finding epic loot
3-building
etc

Living forum is:
1-Reading forum
2-writing comments
3-starting threads
etc

Surviving Area 23 is: simply avoiding a list of dangers.
Following Forum guidelines is: simply avoiding a list of prohibitions.

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

when someone dies, that's not against any (enforceable) rules, and they aren't told not to do it again

Why did you put non-HC consequences then? Exp% penalty!

You say
"Dying is a part of the game and players are and should be free to die as much as they want"

I say
"Desobeying intructions is a part of forum life and forum users are and should be free to desobey as much as they want".

Dying/losing EXP/going to Standard is not the end. Player A is free to start new chars new builds. Game continues.
Having a probation/ being banned is not the end. User A can continue to read forum or can make a new account(only if banned). Forum use ability continues(at least the reading part stays)


Stangely, support cares a lot about users performing "more wrong" deeds. You don't have to make the same mistake again or.. suffer longer probations.
Game does not care at all. You can do the same mistake again and again.

Stop caring please!
Delete probation history and stop looking at "prior infractions".

Why did i bring this? Because here is what happens when you 'care' about prior infractions:
1. User A feels past bad behavior has to stay in the past.
2. User A feels the new 'appropriate punishement' got blown out of propotion.
3. User A is angry.
4. User A start doing things that deserve the recent extended probation time he got.
..
Little by little, User A finds out he has to start a new account but since he got attached to his previous account he will just
XX. leave PoE.

I actually invited a good friend to try PoE, he left PoE because of the changes on the Ranger zone tree(Qarl did). He got attached to his little build and did not want to start a new one i guess. Same thing happens for someone who is attached to his account name.

Believe it or not, players get confused and angry for long probations that they think they did not deserve. I invite you to check again the (%Change in report per game after a punishement) results on that video.


This is what i truly believe, feel free to show me the weakness on my analogy-argument.

Troll thread gets 3 GGG responses. Le sigh.

"

InexRising wrote:

You say
"Dying is a part of the game and players are and should be free to die as much as they want"

And this is true, it is not a RULE that players are not allowed to die

"

InexRising wrote:

I say
"Desobeying intructions is a part of forum life and forum users are and should be free to desobey as much as they want".

And this is where you go wrong. This is specifically a rule against this. It says "You are not allowed to do this". Not "We think its bad but you can do it all you want" which is what you seem to be reading


You are either a troll or just having trouble understanding english. Not sure which.

I'm a little impressed by the clarity of Mark's 2 posts.

"

unsane wrote:

Troll thread gets 3 GGG responses. Le sigh.

As i said this is truly what i believe. Completely honest in my opinion.

"

Real_Wolf wrote:

"

InexRising wrote:

You say
"Dying is a part of the game and players are and should be free to die as much as they want"

And this is true, it is not a RULE that players are not allowed to die

"

InexRising wrote:

I say
"Desobeying intructions is a part of forum life and forum users are and should be free to desobey as much as they want".

And this is where you go wrong. This is specifically a rule against this. It says "You are not allowed to do this". Not "We think its bad but you can do it all you want" which is what you seem to be reading

Let's put aside rules and check punishements.
My point is:
You should be allowed to get punishement for bad behavior in forum without getting an extra punishement for repeating it.
Same as dying playing the game, you are allowed te get the same punishement -EXP% without getting extra punishement for repeating the same mistakes.

Here is what i am trying to say: http://postimg.org/image/87sdx9ep9/



All of this to say: i believe probation history is bad.

So you want people, when writing on the forum, to recieve let's say a 3 day probation for anything, nothing More nor Less?

"

InexRising wrote:

"

Kieren_GGG wrote:

Just to elaborate a bit on probations, they aren't something we give out easily either, and are very dependent on prior infractions, as well as the severity.

This needs to be changed. Discuss

I think the question comes down to "Do you believe in rehabilitation"?

Personally, I feel that rehabilitation is possible in some scenarios. As an example, someone who has driven whilst under the influence of alcohol may be able to recognise the impact of their behaviour and, with support, ensure they do not make the same decision again. This is somewhat analogous to a person commenting "Well you're a f&cktard that only plays scr*bcore and your momma is a ho LOL"

On the other hand, a paedophile terrorist who jaywalks is unlikely to be able to be rehabilitated. This is somewhat analogous to people trolling about fishing.

:)

Can I recommend that the BANNED/PROBATED users are offered complimentary (and mandatory) counselling sessions, and are required to undertake restorative justice processes with their victims?