Cheap, Tanky, DPSy: Summon Raging Spirit [not updated for 1.3+]

So, I've been trying to figure how to manage these gems with using Life/ES hyrbid.

I would want Hatred for pure dps, Haste for the synergy it has with casting, moving and dps, Clarity to have mana regen for spirits and AA and Discipline for the massive ES boost.

You can't run all of them and have free mana for spirits. Won't work.
I see 3 options (ignoring the option of removing a gem altogether).

1. Alpha's Howl
You lose ES, Life and have only 1 resists.
You can not be frozen, have some mana leftover, gain levels to gems.

2. Atziri's Foible
You lose life, resists and potentially ES on an amulet
You gain enough mana to run all auras, can potentially use smaller clarity (possibly none) and helps a ton with the low Dex issue.

I think Atiziri's foible is a little more elegant solution for the help with dex, max mana and mana regen. Also, if you must choose losing helm or amulet the amulet would provide less life and es anyhow.

3. Place Clarity on BM. You can do this independant of the above or in conjunction.
Takes up a 3link.

Gem slots. Take a look let me know what y'all think



I'm looking at this for my skill tree. I have 107 points on my level 89 witch.
I've seen a lot of people take sentinel but we have no armor or evasion anyhow so seems pointless. resists is only reason to touch that but I'd rather get from gear.

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Madcow1120 wrote:

So, I've been trying to figure how to manage these gems with using Life/ES hyrbid.

I would want Hatred for pure dps, Haste for the synergy it has with casting, moving and dps, Clarity to have mana regen for spirits and AA and Discipline for the massive ES boost.

You can't run all of them and have free mana for spirits. Won't work.
I see 3 options (ignoring the option of removing a gem altogether).

I don't see how foible is an option without alpha's.

Without alpha's you have 34% reservation from tree, and 70% reduced mana. So your 60% auras take 60%*0.66*0.7=27.72%. If you run 3 of them you're taking up ceil(3*27.72)=84% of your mana. Clarity reserveres 540 mana * 0.66 * 0.70 = 250 mana. Say you want 200 free mana. Let's compute max mana, M, it should satisfy M*0.16-250=200, or M=2812.5. No way atziri's foible is going to push you from 1.6k mana to 2.8k.

With alpha's and 34% reservation from tree, and 70% reduced mana your 3*60% auras take 71% of your mana and clarity takes 220. So now we need M*0.29-220=200 or M=1.5k max mana, which is totally achievable.

Otherwise I've also been struggling to figure out gem links.

I'm think in alphas: RM-Clarity-Discipline-Haste
Armor: 3L: Generosity (depends on its multiplier) - Hatred - Reduced Mana | 1L or linked to Hatred: Arctic Armor | 2L: Arc - Spell Totem
Gloves/Boots 4L: Increased Duration - Vaal Haste - Flesh Offering - Ele Weakness
Boots/Gloves 4L: CWDT or Animate Weapon

probably been mentioned and i cant be bothered to go through 25 pages of posts

but in the recommended tree, knock off 4 of the scion life wheel and get the barbarism +1 max fire next to the skill duration nodes.

20% life vs 20% life / +1 max fire / 10 strength / 8% fire res

which then opens you to be able to remove the +30 dex node / 4 connecting nodes between witch / templar for a swap of

40 intel + 30 dex (5 points) vs 30 strength ( 3 points)


https://poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgMAvYJXK_6z6QLfim0Za9vsiiycg9sEB0yzOlhVxl8q6-QNjWwLIvTBxX_GHNzbC4IeiEIvb9kTcLvsGLQMkyco-lfJDXzqumqsWpGofdP7gscGSbXyNZLYvf4Ktz5Bh_nozzJZbV-YbqqYrQPuHb4zh6yqkFXAGlnzGjinhICkJLCG0Rcv-tJmnlXWZOdKyONqNukkqhZv8kXAVAj0vOpqQ0mx18_5N--ISVHw1Y_6Bx6VLoMJRnEdquGIflnr7lNSRZ2a4B_HK3gti4cZbBb8SyftPC3GrsT2

"

Budzergo wrote:

probably been mentioned and i cant be bothered to go through 25 pages of posts

but in the recommended tree, knock off 4 of the scion life wheel and get the barbarism +1 max fire next to the skill duration nodes.

20% life vs 20% life / +1 max fire / 10 strength / 8% fire res

which then opens you to be able to remove the +30 dex node / 4 connecting nodes between witch / templar for a swap of

40 intel + 30 dex (5 points) vs 30 strength ( 3 points)


https://poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgMAvYJXK_6z6QLfim0Za9vsiiycg9sEB0yzOlhVxl8q6-QNjWwLIvTBxX_GHNzbC4IeiEIvb9kTcLvsGLQMkyco-lfJDXzqumqsWpGofdP7gscGSbXyNZLYvf4Ktz5Bh_nozzJZbV-YbqqYrQPuHb4zh6yqkFXAGlnzGjinhICkJLCG0Rcv-tJmnlXWZOdKyONqNukkqhZv8kXAVAj0vOpqQ0mx18_5N--ISVHw1Y_6Bx6VLoMJRnEdquGIflnr7lNSRZ2a4B_HK3gti4cZbBb8SyftPC3GrsT2

I agree about barbarism, but next time read before making suggestions. The pathing is specifically that way for +dex.

"

MatrixFactor wrote:

"

Madcow1120 wrote:

So, I've been trying to figure how to manage these gems with using Life/ES hyrbid.

I would want Hatred for pure dps, Haste for the synergy it has with casting, moving and dps, Clarity to have mana regen for spirits and AA and Discipline for the massive ES boost.

You can't run all of them and have free mana for spirits. Won't work.
I see 3 options (ignoring the option of removing a gem altogether).

I don't see how foible is an option without alpha's.

Without alpha's you have 34% reservation from tree, and 70% reduced mana. So your 60% auras take 60%*0.66*0.7=27.72%. If you run 3 of them you're taking up ceil(3*27.72)=84% of your mana. Clarity reserveres 540 mana * 0.66 * 0.70 = 250 mana. Say you want 200 free mana. Let's compute max mana, M, it should satisfy M*0.16-250=200, or M=2812.5. No way atziri's foible is going to push you from 1.6k mana to 2.8k.

With alpha's and 34% reservation from tree, and 70% reduced mana your 3*60% auras take 71% of your mana and clarity takes 220. So now we need M*0.29-220=200 or M=1.5k max mana, which is totally achievable.

Otherwise I've also been struggling to figure out gem links.

I'm think in alphas: RM-Clarity-Discipline-Haste
Armor: 3L: Generosity (depends on its multiplier) - Hatred - Reduced Mana | 1L or linked to Hatred: Arctic Armor | 2L: Arc - Spell Totem
Gloves/Boots 4L: Increased Duration - Vaal Haste - Flesh Offering - Ele Weakness
Boots/Gloves 4L: CWDT or Animate Weapon

Yep, I did the math too but was looking at it using a lower level clarity on BM with atziri's foible. The loss of life from using BM vs the Loss of life from losing the helmet would be where the choice is made. Loss of life from amulet is also I factor I suppose but the reduced requirements is so nice. I was hoping to avoid alpha's but it's looking unavoidable.

At least it's a great (cheaper) option while leveling.

Don't forget Vaal Discipline in your links. I's a great panic button especially if doing something like atziri.

So, I suppose the links with an alpha's, generosity and self cast immortal call could be
Helm: RM - Haste - Clarity - Discipline
4L: RM - Generosity - Hatred - Curse
Chest 5L : Increased Duration - Vaal Haste - Vaal Discipline - Immortal Call - Flesh Offering
Chest 1L : AA
4L: CWDT - Enduring Cry ; Spell totem - Arc (hard colors to get on pure ES but achievable)

chroming may be an issue with ES gear.

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Also, does the 20% nerf make minion damage high priority? I currently use minion damage as my 5th anyhow.

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Madcow1120 wrote:

Yep, I did the math too but was looking at it using a lower level clarity on BM with atziri's foible. The loss of life from using BM vs the Loss of life from losing the helmet would be where the choice is made. Loss of life from amulet is also I factor I suppose but the reduced requirements is so nice. I was hoping to avoid alpha's but it's looking unavoidable.
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Also, does the 20% nerf make minion damage high priority? I currently use minion damage as my 5th anyhow.

Reduced requirements is equivalent to 154-ceil(154*0.75)=38 dex on the amu, since the only requirements we have trouble with is dex.

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Let's think about mana drain first.

L20 AA stationary + 6L spirit with minion damage cast time 0.3: 38.3*1.26 + 0.5*153/0.3 = 303.

L20 AA mobile: 229.7 * 1.26 = 289.4.

So we need to push mana regen to 300 or even higher ideally since our unreserved pool will be small, so we won't be able to sustain a deficit for long with vaal haste.

With 1.5k mana, and L20 clarity we get and 175% regen from tree we get 1500*0.0175 + 24.6*(1+0.54+.26) = 70.5 base regen. Solving for R (regen from gear) we have (1+1.75+R)*70.5 = 300, or R = 1.5, or we need about 150% mana regen from gear.

I don't think low level clarity is an option, since it makes up most of our mana regen.

---

So if we want clarity on blood magic without alphas, we still need 200 unresereved mana. From my previous post, we will need a pool of 1250. This is totally doable.

The reservation will cost us 540*0.66*0.7*1.96 = 489 life. With my current 140% life/160% es tree a hat we also lose +2 discipline, which is worth 32*1.8*2.6=149 ES, and +2 clarity which is worth 1.8*1.8*(1+1.75+1.5)=13.7 mana/sec. Ignoring mana regen, alpha's gives 489+149=638 EHP. For a rare helm with 80 life to beat it it would need ES of 638=80*2.4+ES*2.6, or 171. Not that hard to get. The question is gem sockets.

Armor: Dur-VHaste-FO-EW | Spell Totem - Arc
Hat: RM-Disc-Clarity-Haste
Boot: BM-RM-Clarity-VDisc
Glove: RM-Gen-Hatred | AA

So we get 500+ EHP by not using alpha's, but it costs us 2 gem slots. I feel like we may potentially be able to get more than 500 EHP out of two gem slots. Alternatively, unset rings for AA and EW...

^you have clarity twice.
Vaal discipline doesn't take any mana that I know of. At least doesn't mention any on wiki. Rather keep it on duration link. swap with curse
Not sure there are unset rings anymore. Voideye has gone legacy now according to patch notes.


I boiled it down to this for gem setup

Using BM gem for clarity (with or without atziri's foible)
-must choose between CWDT setup or Genorosity


Using Alpha's
-Allows you to use CWDT and/or generosity


I think a bm setup would be good for early game until you can get an alpha's then alpha's will provide more because of generosity and cwdt being available.
I've been using self cast IC and CWDT EC. Works well enough. For trio it'd be better to have it all on 1 link though. Last gem setup may be best for that reason. swap out CWDT - IC- EC and either duration or add arc to still proc ee.

to choose I guess the question is: Is 500EHP > CWDT setup. That seems to be the choice right?

Initially I was hoping the regen from atziri's foible would be enough to lower clarity but it clearly is not.

hi guys i have question... i want use spirits in 4 links and think about +2 to minion helm.
What will be better raging spirits(+2), multistrikie, spell echo, melee physical or minion damage (+2 from helm and maybe q) ??? thanks

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Jarovb wrote:

hi guys i have question... i want use spirits in 4 links and think about +2 to minion helm.
What will be better raging spirits(+2), multistrikie, spell echo, melee physical or minion damage (+2 from helm and maybe q) ??? thanks

If only 4link I'd say probably go:
raging spirit - Echo - Multistrike - Melee physical

Final (subject to change ofc :) ) 1.2 tree posted.