Remove Only Stash Unlock!

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Raycheetah wrote:

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adania wrote:

IMO GGG should just set a timer on remove tabs and be done with it.

IF GGG were to do something like this, they would need to make sure that the timer started ONLY when a NEW league's batch of RO tabs came down the pike, and only for the previous league's RO tabs. That would ensure that nobody might go away for a while (playing something else, military service, spending time in a coma...) to return and find that they have lost all those RO tabs. The activity on the account indicated by the arrival of the new RO tabs would mean that the player could then be notified by something in BIG RED LETTERS whenever they open their stash that those older RO tabs were gong to expire on (date).

GGG could've handled this better. Some advance notification would have been nice, as would the ability to select which tabs to convert from RO. This doesn't smack of underhandedness so much as ham-handedness, and GGG really needs to step up and address the concerns of those of us who dun like being told to "clean up our room, NOW." I can absolutely see why some folks would have no reason to buy more tabs, under these conditions.

As for those calling names and accusing people who aren't lickety-split on clearing out their RO tabs cheaters, y'all need to back off and take a chill pill. I have over 100 Premium tabs, bought and paid for, and I'M not in any hurry to sort RO tabs, either. But the solution which always tempts me, buying more, IS less appealing, now. I think GGG is gonna wake up with teeth marks in their collective ass, from this one. ='[.]'=

I understand that doing it only for newly created RO tabs would make it fair. But people still have RO tabs from Anarchy/Onslaught, that finished 9 Months ago. That is more than enough time to reasonably have GGG expect people to have removed items already.

But this in a way is the same situation as legacy items. GGG does not want to remove or edit player's items. I made the same point months ago that sometimes you need to make hard decisions that will annoy some people, but will in the end benefit the game. So far GGG is still trying to please everyone and not trample on anyone's toes but its a hard balancing act and something for another thread and/or conversation.

The fairest way for GGG to approach this IMO is to say that new RO tabs replace old ones. This way everyone is warned that by the end of the league they must clear up their old RO tabs if they wish to keep any items - That is usually a 5 month warning which is more than adequate.

But this also means that players who leave the game for a long period of time will not lose their RO tabs, since they must participate in a new league to have them replaced.

Whether this is theoretically possible with programming or not I cannot say.

If the problem is server space and performance, then I cannot fathom how they couldn't foresee the accumulation of tabs over years. If the problem is that they want them to be temporary, why make them permanent? The reasoning behind the change is bogus.

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bansiddhi wrote:

"We recently made a change where the contents of a remove-only tab are automatically moved into a new stash tab as one is purchased. "
I'm very concern about that quote, It's mean if I purchased stash then the "remove-only stash" will unlock instead of got new-clean stash?
This is unacceptable for me and not enjoyable anymore because I want to freeze item/memory in stash rather than unlock it. How could I still purchased new stash and retain remove-only stash? Or it's "Technical Problem Solve" by Marketing Team?.

why dont <
you sort your 10 stash tabs instead of whining about changes??

 With my 30 premium tabs eventually after enough time passes and I keep adding 30 RO tabs to Standard League I'll eventually hit the maximum stash tab limit so GGG has to decide how to handle this sooner or later. Players with more than my current 30 tabs will hit that limit sooner than me so the PoE coders will have to work out a solution and GGG will have to weigh in on this eventually and give us an official decision here.

 My thread in the Feedback forum was posted July 4th (Eastern Standard Time USA) when I went to view all my Ambush builds that are now in standard and noticed that I was accumulating quite a few remove-only tabs there and counted them. Then I remembered reading something Chris had stated that at the time I didn't think much of it but then the full implication of that one change was smacking me in the head. I have 67 RO tabs, if I buy 6 premium tabs for 165 points ($16.50 US) on the next premium sale I won't be getting 6 new empty tabs for me to move RO items into (as it was before the change) but instead GGG will randomly pick a block of 6 of my RO tabs and convert them to full use tabs. I acquired so many RGB gems in Ambush that I had to take my 3rd weapon tab and make it a 4th gem tab. I filled up my quiver tab 100% with rare quivers. Many other tabs are over 90% full of gear. A lot of this is for future new builds I want to try out when I have the time. This is exactly what GGG wants us to do. Re-playability and longevity is supposed to be a key feature for playing PoE (which it is for me) so keeping many pieces of gear for that purpose is essential. Some of my saved gear is for faster leveling so keeping these in RO tabs and not wasting valuable full use tabs is very important right now. At some point this year I will want to consolidate down and eliminate a bunch or RO tabs but I want to do that on my own schedule and do not want that forced upon me. If I buy tabs now I won't know until after the purchase which six RO tabs were converted and it could easily be 6 that are full or near full and thus I would be forced to sell off my gear now. Some would argue that I don't need that much gear and it's a good thing to be required to vendor off gear at every 4 month league end but this change feels like GGG is putting a gun to my head and forcing me to do it now. That is certainly no way to treat a PoE loyalist who after 20 months of playing is still here and still finding reasons to want to continue playing PoE for another 20 months and keeping lots of items (regardless of whether you think I don't need to save that much) is one way that I measure my time spent playing PoE. My accumulation of gear is very important to my personal view of having spent over 2000 hours playing PoE over the last 20 months. Currently this means that I won't be buying any new stash tabs and GGG would never want that to happen.

 I sent links to the 2 threads on this problem to support and even directly to Chris in an email so GGG is fully aware of our posts. Since there has been no official response yet I can only assume that GGG is staying mute until such time as they have a solution. Either that or they can't solve their other technical problem with stash and are not planning to go back to the way it was (I sure hope they do reverse this change) and buying new stash tabs will be out of the question pretty much forever. Either way we deserve an official comment on this. GGG, please don't keep us in the dark very long about what you are doing to resolve this. Thank you.

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patlefort3 wrote:

If the problem is server space and performance, then I cannot fathom how they couldn't foresee the accumulation of tabs over years. If the problem is that they want them to be temporary, why make them permanent? The reasoning behind the change is bogus.

I'm assuming that somewhere along the line they saw most people cleaning up their remove only tabs as soon as leagues ended so they wouldn't have to deal with the extra tabs then we have people that are on here complaining because they aren't doing that and have many many many more remove only tabs than GGG thought would ever accumulate. And they seem to me that they are temporary no matter how many of you label them as permanent because the moment they are empty and you log off they vanish. Your standard tabs don't do that so I don't know how people can claim they are permanent.

One thing that I still think needs to be done if they revert these changes is what others have said that there can be no linking of items in game or on forums because doing that at all screams to everybody that you are using the temporary space as a permanent space until it is empty. And in my previous posts you are bsing yourself and everybody if you are claiming that every single item you dragged over is worth trading or build using that you couldn't clean up the handful of actual gg items and vendor the rest. You can easily replace most of the items you vendor just by playing again for a week. I know I already have with my 15 that got brought over.

And I still want somebody to address 60's and my anaology of real life storage space. Even if you say get a storage space for free like GGG gives you, do you in the real world tell the owner that you have too much stuff now and need a second storage area that you won't add anything more to once its filled but are not going to pay for and are going to keep holding items in it until you deem the items worthy of removal and they can have it back the moment it has nothing in it anymore? On top of that you ask to rent out a few more so you can store other things that aren't going to be coming from that RO storage area and the rented ones cannot be that RO space? The building owner would laugh in your face and then tell you to get your stuff out at the end of the month when your rent is up and never lend to you again.

If you want the damn extra storage space because your already permanent tabs are filled up then "rent" out the ones you aren't paying for anyway before you demand that GGG rents you some brand new ones.

I'm sorry that I'm getting antagonistic and stuff here but the more I see these arguments, the more weaker they look and seem to have less rational throughout. I do think GGG needs to implement something that can help people with a ton of remove only tabs into cleaning it all up in some way but demanding that you get extra storage beyond what you are already using and didn't pay for is irritating me.

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PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

"

patlefort3 wrote:

If the problem is server space and performance, then I cannot fathom how they couldn't foresee the accumulation of tabs over years. If the problem is that they want them to be temporary, why make them permanent? The reasoning behind the change is bogus.

I'm assuming that somewhere along the line they saw most people cleaning up their remove only tabs as soon as leagues ended so they wouldn't have to deal with the extra tabs then we have people that are on here complaining because they aren't doing that and have many many many more remove only tabs than GGG thought would ever accumulate. And they seem to me that they are temporary no matter how many of you label them as permanent because the moment they are empty and you log off they vanish. Your standard tabs don't do that so I don't know how people can claim they are permanent.

One thing that I still think needs to be done if they revert these changes is what others have said that there can be no linking of items in game or on forums because doing that at all screams to everybody that you are using the temporary space as a permanent space until it is empty. And in my previous posts you are bsing yourself and everybody if you are claiming that every single item you dragged over is worth trading or build using that you couldn't clean up the handful of actual gg items and vendor the rest. You can easily replace most of the items you vendor just by playing again for a week. I know I already have with my 15 that got brought over.

And I still want somebody to address 60's and my anaology of real life storage space. Even if you say get a storage space for free like GGG gives you, do you in the real world tell the owner that you have too much stuff now and need a second storage area that you won't add anything more to once its filled but are not going to pay for and are going to keep holding items in it until you deem the items worthy of removal and they can have it back the moment it has nothing in it anymore? On top of that you ask to rent out a few more so you can store other things that aren't going to be coming from that RO storage area and the rented ones cannot be that RO space? The building owner would laugh in your face and then tell you to get your stuff out at the end of the month when your rent is up and never lend to you again.

If you want the damn extra storage space because your already permanent tabs are filled up then "rent" out the ones you aren't paying for anyway before you demand that GGG rents you some brand new ones.

I'm sorry that I'm getting antagonistic and stuff here but the more I see these arguments, the more weaker they look and seem to have less rational throughout. I do think GGG needs to implement something that can help people with a ton of remove only tabs into cleaning it all up in some way but demanding that you get extra storage beyond what you are already using and didn't pay for is irritating me.

It's not temporary. There was never any mention of them being temporary. Remove-only means remove-only, not temporary. Your analogy of real life storage make no sense here. The tabs were designed that way. If you feel that they should be temporary, that's your choice, but until GGG officially say that they are supposed to be temporary, they are permanent.

I totally saw the 2 types of trolls coming: The white knights and the condescending "I am rich you are too cheap and poor to buy 40 tabs every season look at me I'm the shit".

@PleiadesBlackstar

What are you even talking about? You realize that the remove only tabs are effectively the same EXCEPT if you actually buy any tabs. You're going on about them being temporary when they're still quite permanent.

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kasub wrote:

@PleiadesBlackstar

What are you even talking about? You realize that the remove only tabs are effectively the same EXCEPT if you actually buy any tabs. You're going on about them being temporary when they're still quite permanent.

tem·po·rar·y
ˈtempəˌrerē
adjective
1.
lasting for only a limited period of time; not permanent.

They are only permanent until you take the last item out. Yes it is permanent because you choose to leave your items in there for as long as you please but since it disappears when you log off once the items are out it still has a time limit.

I said I don't want to be antagonistic and I realize I am getting that way to some of you so I am done posting. I completely understand why GGG did the change and support it. Maybe they should have just flat out said this rather than pretending that it was a benefit to all players but the actual change itself has justification. Just not the one they gave.

I'm out.

The problem I have is with the way it was announced way after it was put in place and implemented in a way that players can't choose which tab get upgraded. The remove only system has always been in place. Myself and a lot of other players honestly assumed that GGG had accounted for the hoarding the system allowed and had compensated for it in the price of tabs. Now it is clear they had not and the way they handled it was shady and shitty customer service.

If they really want the tabs cleaned out give me a vendor all button at the top of each remove tab. I play hardcore, don't trade, don't altf4, and have a cat that will jump straight on to my keyboard when he is feeling ignored. I burn through a lot of items, so I pick up lots of junk for all my rerolling. I pick up 4 links to alc when my characters get stuck since alcs are easier to come by than fuses. Once I get in to level 60 areas I pick up tons of white rings, amulets, and belts to alc for chaos recipe. When tabs from a temp league roll in to legacy it is seriously not worth my time to clear out a bunch of tabs full of white items.

This change is going to hurt GGG's revenue long term. The people most in to buying tabs are the ones hurt most by this.

Well, I sent a feedback mail to support (who answered back in like 20 min, showing again they are awesome) and sent the same mail to Chris, who actually took time to answer too, which I really appreciate.



I suppose it's ok to post Chris answer:

"

Thanks for the mail!

The core problem here is how our stash code works. There's no way to choose which tab is upgraded, which causes a problem in some circumstances where users can receive an unlimited number of stash tabs (without having to do any races). The change to how the stash tab purchases work (where it increases your entitlement of real tabs, rather than forceably generating a real one each time) was to fix that. We're not really concerned with people using read-only tabs as long-term storage like they have been doing.

I'm not completely happy with the solution and want to find a better one.

Kind regards,
Chris

The bold part is what's most interesting to me. Also the issue looks like a purely technical one (and not a 'change of policy'), so hopefully GGG will find some time in the future to hack up a solution.