Spectal Throw is not in line with melee

From a pure balance standpoint, I agree that ST is flat out better than melee when taking into account the general observation that ST and melee builds will use similar gear and passive skills.

The problem is that there is virtually no trade off. You can hit deeper into a group of mobs with the automatic pierce, with not much damage drop-off. Furthermore, you can do this without being in as vulnerable of a position as melee.

With that being said, there are a lot of options, and we don't have to choose to play the most powerful builds. I would rather have the developers spend time on creating new and interesting content than focus on balance, which is probably impossible anyway.

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Fruz wrote:

It makes CoC buils very easy with any kind of weapons ( hello dagger - crit - CoC build ) as an example ...

I've tried this with Discharge and I think it's sub-optimal. In order to make best use of Spectral Throw, you want to stand outside of melee range. That wastes a large fraction of your Discharge blast radius on the gap. I found Reave + Multistrike gave me more bang for the buck than Spectral Throw + Faster Attacks.

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RogueMage wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

It makes CoC buils very easy with any kind of weapons ( hello dagger - crit - CoC build ) as an example ...

I've tried this with Discharge and I think it's sub-optimal. In order to make best use of Spectral Throw, you want to stand outside of melee range. That wastes a large fraction of your Discharge blast radius on the gap. I found Reave + Multistrike gave me more bang for the buck than Spectral Throw + Faster Attacks.

I didn't mean discharge, just use ST + GMP + CoC + Fireball + randomsupport/secondfireball with three dragon helm as an example, or another projectile spell instead of fireball.

boring discussion is boring xD

we fixed melee yesterday

http://i.imgur.com/YQp6JQM.jpg

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Vincendra wrote:

IMHO its not that ST is too strong or does too much dmg.

ITS THE ONLY VIABLE SKILLGEM FOR MELEES TO STAY SAFE WITHOUT OVERCAPPING ON DEFENSIVE NODES/GEAR.

Yeah, there are two other skills, that allow melees to "play ranged" (Lightning Strike and Molten Strike), but they seem pretty balanced because:
1. They convert a part of physical damage into elemental (which cant leech and is reduced by resists drastically).
2. They hit once (no ridiculous synergy with CoC or LGoH).
3. They cost more mana.
4. They have additional drawbacks (LS projectiles stop at any obstacles, for example, while MS projectile are kinda random).

So, yes, the DAMAGE is one of the main factors here. If you add, for example, "50% physical damage converted to cold" to spectral throw, its usefullness will be DRASTICALLY reduced for physical builds.

Also, desync plays a huge role in ST OPness. With desync, you want to litter screen with AoE, hoping to hit enemies which are NOT where you see them. If you try to use precise skills (melee attacks, ranged single-target attacks), you will "miss" a LOT just because enemy isnt where you see it.

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Ulfgaard wrote:

From a pure balance standpoint, I agree that ST is flat out better than melee when taking into account the general observation that ST and melee builds will use similar gear and passive skills.

The problem is that there is virtually no trade off. You can hit deeper into a group of mobs with the automatic pierce, with not much damage drop-off. Furthermore, you can do this without being in as vulnerable of a position as melee.

With that being said, there are a lot of options, and we don't have to choose to play the most powerful builds. I would rather have the developers spend time on creating new and interesting content than focus on balance, which is probably impossible anyway.

I disagree, adding more on top of something that needs to be fixed is not a good idea

I wouldn't be surprised if we get that kind of a fix.

@peachii:

If you read this thread like you said, I'm not sure what I can say to make you understand.

The title should give you an idea: ST is not in line with melee, it's not balanced.

ST was made to help melee but it's really working against it because ranged is not melee.

I want a melee skill as my primary skill, not a ranged skill. I'm fine with a secondary skill throwing my weapon as a weaker backup skill but I dont want that as my main skill.

And then you say: "you don't have to"

No I don't have to but that's the same as telling someone: "you don't have to get any life". Except if you don't want to die you do. Same goes for ST, you don't have to but if you want to be most efficient as melee but don't go with ST, you're either not being very smart or you're very stubborn (like me).

Balance is key in this type of games, balance is important because the game has an economy and a ladder. It has to be fair and therefor balanced. Melee already was inferior compared to ranged and casters in my opinion and ST disbalances it only further because ST is not melee.

So again: The core problem (for me at least) is that this ranged skill is always the best option for melee builds when we're talking about efficiency.

I don't see how your unique fixes my problem, it would just mean I need any other weapon and ST...
Here I created a unique too, especially note the text in the bottom:

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Startkabels wrote:

Here I created a unique too, especially note the text in the bottom:

ROFL

This image is the perfect summary of my (multi-year) balance concerns around build diversity and interesting player choices.

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Because ST is so strong, a character with the same gear and mostly the same passives (life, aura, maybe some weapon ipd) has no reason to want to use a melee skill over ST other than aesthetics.

From a diversity perspective, either ST needs less power or all melee skills need more power. It's obvious which one here is the easier (to code and to test) fix.

From a balance perspective, ST's strength allows "melee" builds to survive and do good damage. All other options need to be buffed.

The convolution of those two is thus: ST needs a large nerf, and all melee needs a medium buff. The end result is that ST still does mostly the same damage it does currently and all other melee skills do more damage than they did before (or if ST does "too much" damage (which I'm not sure about), then it can do slightly less damage than it does currently).

It's now an interesting choice for the player to take ST instead of a free upgrade (assuming the same gear and passives).

Another option is to simply make ST builds not use 99% of the same passives as every other melee skill, so the character cannot simply swap gems. If ST required pierce or projectile investment (outside of the 1pt in Iron Grip), that would be pretty nifty.