Spectal Throw is not in line with melee

To be fair i sort of feel the thread title has been changed more or less cause of me so ill take the blame for that.

Removal, in retrospect might be going a bit too far, but i hate this skill so much i personally would like it removed, this would probably no be the best way to go about it since as peachii and others pointed out it would never happen and restoring the MTXes would be hard. I did not think about that, although i really wish they thought this skill through before they added it..


A nerf though, i think people came up with some really good ideas around this thread for nerfing it, rrtson's is probably the best one:

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rrtson wrote:

Or how about...

1) Spectral Throw does not automatically pierce. Projectiles disappear on contact, unless player specced into "% to pierce" nodes/curses/items.

2) Spectral Throw does not return to user. The projectiles will continue onwards, just like how 99.99% of the other projectile skills fucking function in this game.

The auto-piercing boomerang effect just makes Spectral Throw beyond overpowered.

the skill is made overpowered by these things

The automatical pierce lets it hit many enemies without having to invesnt in any pierce chance and the return makes it hit all of those enemies at least 2 times this is insane considering people have to either pick between pierce and chain (basically hitting enemies more than once). This skill without any investment has both pierce and hits enemies more than once, its just ridiculous and mainly the reason for which it is so powerful.


Remove the pierce and the return, make your char just hurl the weapon and thats it, it would still do a good amount of damage but it wont have a inheret chance to pierce(would need some investment for it, like every other skill) and it wont shotgun enemies.

This would be the best way to go about balancing the skill


I do not like the cooldown idea because with frenzy charges doing bosses with this skill would be impossbile, atziri would not be doable, and its my opinion that you should be able to do atziri with any dps skill. With powercharges it would make almost no difference since ST builds have huge crit

I changed the title of the topic from "ST stops me from playing the game" to "ST should be removed".

The first title I wrote to emphasize how important this is for me. I never stopped playing the game but anytime I start playing I do have difficulties not to stop. I guess sometimes it really makes me stop but I just keep coming back. Sometimes I'm just thinking about my build or theocrafting for hours in vain because ST clearly needs a change and this is a dilemma I cannot get rid of.

People responded to the original title and were surprised ST made me stop, since I can still enjoy other skills I like.
That's partially true: I'm trying not to use ST but Infernal Blow - Melee Splash instead. However I'm still not sure if I'm having fun, knowing that ST is far better suited for my build to be most effective.

So I changed the title to "ST should be removed" since I figured that nerfing it is typically unwanted and GGG wants to buff other things instead.

I don't care much however, I want this dilemma to go away. I'm fine with removing ST or I'm fine with any smart change to ST that the community supports.

So I changed the title again :)

BTW: Somebody posted something about nerfing auras. I'm strongly against this, I love auras because I love permanent stuff (for example I dont like charges). I loved the recent change to auras, making them way stronger but costing more manas.
If any I would like to see something done about snapshotting really, that's like cheating in my perception. How can you something that you're not wearing effect you at all? Makes no sense.

I always felt PoEs system of having no mechanics to stop you from spamming every skill (with a few exceptions) was bad, because it's not promoting diverse use of skills. I clearly see the downside of having cooldowns, but wouldn't it be great to have something similar? When thinking about ST, throwing a weapon, I always had the ability in mind to sometimes throw the weapon instead of the usual close quarters fighting. Let us throw it once, just once, until it comes back.

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VictorDoom wrote:

Spectral Throw is honestly in my opinion the worst idea they ever came up with. It shouldnt be seriously nerfed, it should be removed.

Basically everyone complains that melee is shit, its too hard to play, not enough dmg or defenses etc etc

So someone at GGG thought a good solution to fix is melee is.... to make it ranged, top job there mate.

And the worst it becomes when combining it with the other 2 op mechanics of the game:
ST + dagger + low life = tripple multiplied overpowered.

This is the stuff that kills 78 bosses on maps within 5 seconds in 6 player parties where you stand next to it and watch with your 1000 exa gear on a normal solid build and think:
"why exactly did I choose to play this game?"


If gg cant manage to balance their game the slightest bit, it is not worth the 50 cent. And I am not talking about stuff that is 50% or 100% stronger than other stuff.

I talk about stuff that is 10-50 times as effective as other stuff with having equally rare/expensive/worthy gear.

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Archwizard wrote:

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Startkabels wrote:

I want to play as a melee, but when I'm planning my build the final conclusion is always that the build I'm planning is inefficient.

The reason is Spectal Throw which just offers too much advantage for any melee build. It's the simple fact that it makes your physical melee attack a physical ranged attack that still scales with weapon damage.

The path GGG took with Melee Splash and Multi Strike was a good direction, Spectal Throw is a wrong turn really.

It shouldn't be designed like this and always be more efficient for melee builds. It should be seriously nerfed

A skill you aren't planning on using makes you feel bad about skills you want to use.

Your problem is you. Stop worrying about most efficient and play for fun.

Usually the most idiotic statements from low life/dagger ST users themselves to protect their tripple abuse and justify it.

Go play monopoly and tell the other guys that you start with 20k cash while the others start with 2k cash and they should forget competition and play for fun.


PoE has lost any point or reason for playing it more as this stuff is happening for way too long already. Too many people have been abusing these builds to the fullest for monthes so that this game that is based on economy (and therefore relies cruicially on balance) has gotten too much out of its bounds.

If you want to participate you will have to join them, and this is where I prefered to say "I am out guys, have fun in this kindergarden of proud abusers that will be left!".

Man, such rage, and totally misdirected too, at least in calling me a skill abuser.

I don't use any of the top popular builds, I almost never trade. My one ST char was in Domination when it was the brand new skill, it's my level 85 scion and I use it with a Vaal Axe cus man that thing as a spinning wheel of doom looks badass.

You'll also find, LSN, that if you had read more of my statements you'd notice I support the fundamental thesis proposed by Stark: ST is not designed well in that it allows one build (Melee) to become a completely unrelated build (Ranged) via one skill.

If you'd been paying even more attention, you'd notice that my change from addressing Stark's approaching to playing/enjoying the game (saying his problem was him) to the way ST affects the overall game (see above) coincided with his changing of the thread's title.

But I guess reading comprehension and thoughtfulness are too much to expect.

"

VictorDoom wrote:

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rrtson wrote:

Or how about...

1) Spectral Throw does not automatically pierce. Projectiles disappear on contact, unless player specced into "% to pierce" nodes/curses/items.

2) Spectral Throw does not return to user. The projectiles will continue onwards, just like how 99.99% of the other projectile skills fucking function in this game.

The auto-piercing boomerang effect just makes Spectral Throw beyond overpowered.

the skill is made overpowered by these things

The automatical pierce lets it hit many enemies without having to invesnt in any pierce chance and the return makes it hit all of those enemies at least 2 times this is insane considering people have to either pick between pierce and chain (basically hitting enemies more than once). This skill without any investment has both pierce and hits enemies more than once, its just ridiculous and mainly the reason for which it is so powerful.


Remove the pierce and the return, make your char just hurl the weapon and thats it, it would still do a good amount of damage but it wont have a inheret chance to pierce(would need some investment for it, like every other skill) and it wont shotgun enemies.

Actually, I think the removal of auto pierce would only make it even stronger for burst dps because of the way it is handled. Without pierce we can add chain and fork to it which would allow it to turn into a whirlwind of spinning death (high dps weapon + metric ton of particles with LMP/fork/chain/pointblank). Its the combo of auto pierce and returning like a boomerang more then just pierce. And since point blank adds damage based on when the particle was created, not when you threw it, it would turn chain + fork + damage auras + point blank + LMP on spectral throw with a high dps weapon into something brutally broken.

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Archwizard wrote:

Man, such rage, and totally misdirected too, at least in calling me a skill abuser.

I don't use any of the top popular builds, I almost never trade. My one ST char was in Domination when it was the brand new skill, it's my level 85 scion and I use it with a Vaal Axe cus man that thing as a spinning wheel of doom looks badass.

You'll also find, LSN, that if you had read more of my statements you'd notice I support the fundamental thesis proposed by Stark: ST is not designed well in that it allows one build (Melee) to become a completely unrelated build (Ranged) via one skill.

If you'd been paying even more attention, you'd notice that my change from addressing Stark's approaching to playing/enjoying the game (saying his problem was him) to the way ST affects the overall game (see above) coincided with his changing of the thread's title.

But I guess reading comprehension and thoughtfulness are too much to expect.

Well I am sorry then. Writing people should ignore imbalances of this extend sounded a bit stupid. The game loses it legitimacy through it for me.

STs OPness is most visible on the new Merciless-Chars. When you cant wear good EQ yet (no lvl or new league), you will die in Merciless as a Meleebuild. You need to forgo DMG Auras and nodes for early def.auras and nodes.

My last DW Shadow had 2.3k life on Merciless, and even with running Grace (IR) and Purity o.E. I died 10~ times in Ambush.

All the while my ST Elebuzzsaw had 1.8k Life and around 20-30 allres, did use off. Auras and only specced off. nodes first. Still didnt die up to CoS Perpetus in Merciless.


IMHO its not that ST is too strong or does too much dmg.

ITS THE ONLY VIABLE SKILLGEM FOR MELEES TO STAY SAFE WITHOUT OVERCAPPING ON DEFENSIVE NODES/GEAR.

I don't like ST either, it's far too versatile for the dps that it also brings imho.

It makes CoC buils very easy with any kind of weapons ( hello dagger - crit - CoC build ) as an example ...

Also circumvents desync most of the time. Spam 6x3 projectiles /second in an 45° Arc >>> desync of mobs.