[OUTDATED] Zivko's WoE + BoR build - Seems like the build is dead

Yeah I just removed entire Dynamo cluster and changed it for 3x 5%hp nodes. Can run attacks and grace/deter without any problem. And went from 5.7 to 5.98k hp

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SearchMyAim wrote:

Hiho,

since I am struggling very much with getting enough currency to get BoR I thought I might try it without.
First of all, I am kind of new. So it seems like I have to learn due mistakes I make.

I bought a Carcass Jack today. I thought it will fit quite well because my resists are still capped and the armor itself is quite nice with max life and increased AOE and AOE dmg.
But I was very suprised as I saw that the tooltip DPS didn't change at all if I switch Carcass Jack and my old armor (which just had life and resistances).
So the 12% more AOE dmg of Carcass Jack does not effect my current damage at all, or can I just not see it at the tooltip but I have to believe it is there?
Does it make a difference where the skill gems are placed? At the moment I am running 4L in WoE with Dual Strike + Multistrike + Meele Splash + Faster Attacks. Does it have to be in the Armor so the 12% increased AoE dmg count?

Best regards :)

AoE dmg doesn't show in tooltip. You do not need to have the gems in Carcass Jack.

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Fujira wrote:

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Sparkl wrote:

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Fujira wrote:

Thanks for the input but survivability is much more important to me. I did as I said I would and changed to blood rage + determination/grace which gives me 53% flat reduction without endurance or pots together with 57/61 block while sustaining 20k dps. That is without any of the axe dmg nodes yet. I don't really like cleave either and the tool tip dps is a bit misleading compared to melee splash with dual strike, but that's just my preference :)

Do keep in mind that I play Beyond so one mistake or similar is enough.

Well, the stats that would change in your case by switching to BoR are -

You loose :

- cca 200 armour
- cca 700 evasion
- depends if BoR is legacy in case its not you loose around 70 stat HP. With legacy BoR, you loose much less eva and armour, your HP stays intact.

You gain:

- Blind (50% chance to miss) - additionally lowered accuracy by using enfeeble
- Much more dps (around 28k)
- 15% block
- chance of getting endurance charge on block

Well, except for the HP, other cons can be easily solved by using determination + grace, HP is the only downside, but can again be solved by getting legacy BoR.

I have no idea how you actually managed to loose dps when switching to BoR (yes, the skill gems in BoR get a lower lvl, but BoR also adds 20-30 phys dmg which is huge). 15% additional block chance is not a minimal improvement, it's actually huge, and also leaves you with the oportunity to refund the block nodes to something else, mainly HP or DPS, whatever you feel you need more.

Otherwise the gain from switching to BoR is huge, I would dare to say that switching to BoR in your case would make your char much more defensive than running a helmet+chest combo. Well, at least until you manage to find yourself a killer chest + helmet with high eva/armour stats on it.

Solving ele res is easy with rings + belts.

Edit: By choosing acrobatics and spell dodge, armour rate isn't so important since you loose 50% of it anyway, but phys reduction gets solved anyway, since you will be running around with a 10sec IC anyway. :)

Sorry but there are so many assumptions and errors in this post.

People always say that BoR is a 7L, but its not a 7L. First of all Melee phys and FA are lvl 18 and 12, blind is lvl 6. And that is with 0% QUALITY. Its a huge dps-loss compared to a 6L WoE with all 20 quality gems on lvl 20.

And about Legacy BoR you can forget that completely, there is no legacy BoR in Beyond and if there ever will be almost no one will be able to afford it.

The loss of 5-700 hp and total reduction with IR due to loss of evasion/armor to me seems not worth it, and that is why I decided to sell my BoR and get items with high hp/armor-evasion and chaos resistance.

And my variation of the build is a HC-build, I care very little about what is possible in standard or rampage or any other league. Chaos resistance is huge in beyond for example.

I agree with you that you can make a very solid build without BoR. The main caveat of BoR, IMO, is the 15% block. But, you can get 68/68 off the tree, which is not bad at all, and have more damage and armor/evasion.

Before BoR's were so expensive, I think BoR was the clear-cut winner. But, with costs in the 10 exalt range on challenge leagues, its kind of hard to throw it in there, and I think you could get away without using it and just use something else and get the Scion block nodes and be at 68/68.

I currently run teh BoR set-up on Beyond; I'm 81. I didn't get a BoR till about 79, and was pretty fine until then with 62/62 block, and resists for days.

I agree you will lose DPS in the long run, but gain it in the short run simply because of a free 6L and 20-30 dmg gives. A BoR is not going to be a true 6L; people know this. But most people simply never have access to a real 6L in temp leagues, and therefore BoR is usually a damage increase and boost to their power.

The next time I make a guy, maybe next challenge league or if I rip, I'm just going to get the Scion nodes and go with 68/68 because of how expensive a BoR setup is. I mean, you can go through the melee damage nodes instead of the Resist nodes since with a helm/chest you will have resists for days. I do think I would stick with Acrobatics, tho.

But yea, I'm currently 81 on Beyond, do about 15.5k dps with Hatred/Ashe, Cleave/Multi/Inc AoE/LL in BoR. I use mana, but only use 2 auras. If I wanted to run a purity, I would probably have to get soveriegnity. I do not like Dynamo because I tried something similar in the past when I played a shadow, and mana increases simply do not give very much mana at all over aura reductions. You are better off going up there and getting that then using Dynamo, and I would only save 4 mana per cleave anyways, which isnt much.

I'm going to attempt to 5L my WoE at some point, if I magically get it 6L on accident, I might try BoR-less build. I'd like to use Carcass jack myself.

Well. Yes, you will get higher DPS with a BoR-less build that's for sure, but as the guy above me said, the main thing is in the block gain + blind.

You cannot deny it, but having blind as support + enfeeble makes a phys att mob practically unable to hit anything. Which is a huge + to survivability, offering you an even easier way to do high lvl maps without worrying too much, since you blind everything + you can easily afford to run IC off cwdt.

Except for Atziri and other similar maps, where its also good to have IC up manually. And even then you still have better chances of surviving, cos you can blind while raising up your EC to use IC.

And for the record: Never said BoR is a 7 link. Well, technically speaking, it is, but let's leave it at that.

I find the blind on non legacy BoR just fine, since a lvl 18 blind only raises the blind chance for around 3% which is not THAT significant. Non legacy blind land on mobs just fine and frequent enough.

The only problem you get is with the lvl 12 fa and 18 phys dmg and yes, it is quite low. But, it gets kind of solved with legacy BoR. Although, I understand that BoR is much more expensive on leagues.

I personally have no experience with current leagues as I am not playing there. I spend my time on standard, as it is the league I spare myself the most nerves due to constant desyncing.

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Tisca wrote:

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SearchMyAim wrote:

Hiho,

since I am struggling very much with getting enough currency to get BoR I thought I might try it without.
First of all, I am kind of new. So it seems like I have to learn due mistakes I make.

I bought a Carcass Jack today. I thought it will fit quite well because my resists are still capped and the armor itself is quite nice with max life and increased AOE and AOE dmg.
But I was very suprised as I saw that the tooltip DPS didn't change at all if I switch Carcass Jack and my old armor (which just had life and resistances).
So the 12% more AOE dmg of Carcass Jack does not effect my current damage at all, or can I just not see it at the tooltip but I have to believe it is there?
Does it make a difference where the skill gems are placed? At the moment I am running 4L in WoE with Dual Strike + Multistrike + Meele Splash + Faster Attacks. Does it have to be in the Armor so the 12% increased AoE dmg count?

Best regards :)

AoE dmg doesn't show in tooltip. You do not need to have the gems in Carcass Jack.

Thank you very much for the quick answer! I was thinking the whole night that I might have wasted nearly all of my currency for nothing. But now I am happy again ^^

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Sparkl wrote:

Well. Yes, you will get higher DPS with a BoR-less build that's for sure, but as the guy above me said, the main thing is in the block gain + blind.

You cannot deny it, but having blind as support + enfeeble makes a phys att mob practically unable to hit anything. Which is a huge + to survivability, offering you an even easier way to do high lvl maps without worrying too much, since you blind everything + you can easily afford to run IC off cwdt.

Except for Atziri and other similar maps, where its also good to have IC up manually. And even then you still have better chances of surviving, cos you can blind while raising up your EC to use IC.

And for the record: Never said BoR is a 7 link. Well, technically speaking, it is, but let's leave it at that.

I find the blind on non legacy BoR just fine, since a lvl 18 blind only raises the blind chance for around 3% which is not THAT significant. Non legacy blind land on mobs just fine and frequent enough.

The only problem you get is with the lvl 12 fa and 18 phys dmg and yes, it is quite low. But, it gets kind of solved with legacy BoR. Although, I understand that BoR is much more expensive on leagues.

I personally have no experience with current leagues as I am not playing there. I spend my time on standard, as it is the league I spare myself the most nerves due to constant desyncing.

You also forget that Legacy BoR is 200-220 life, while the new BoR is 120-160. The new BoR is pretty nerfed.

Again, though, its still the best option for MOST people on challenge leagues because it gives them access to a 6L, even a nerfed one.

And another point is BoR was apparently made more rare, so its harder to put this build together now on challenge leagues. My WoE/Rainbow/BoR cost me 13 EX. Thats a lot on an early challenge league.

Now, I'm using a BoR atm. But, it was a tough road getting that kind of currency. An alternate, challenge league build going 68/68 could be pretty feasible for normal players who cant grind up 13 EX worth of currency to put this build together. Thats not even counting rings/gloves/belt/etc.

If I make another guy for whatever reason, RIP or not, Well I wont be able to afford a BoR anyways, and I'll try a new build just going 68/68 off the tree and getting some other, cheaper alternative items for testing.

And, you are arguing with a guy who has a 6L. A real 6l is going to out-perform a BoR. And the fact he can get 68/68 off the tree, he's going to be pretty tanky, too. ANd, he will have a lot more life since the new BoR is at best, 80 helm/80 chest. He can get another 40-50 max Hp off those 2 items without it.

Now, if you are on standard, with a legacy BoR, well things get tricky. Some of use are just playing mostly the challenge leagues though, and a BoR atm is kind of a pipe-dream for most players.

But gaining Endurance Charges on block with BoR is also a huge advantage in my eyes. If you run Immortal Call on self-call it should be no problem to run it like all the time.

And in a challenge league to have a 6L with 20/20 gems in it, is, at least for myself, much more out of range.

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SearchMyAim wrote:

But gaining Endurance Charges on block with BoR is also a huge advantage in my eyes. If you run Immortal Call on self-call it should be no problem to run it like all the time.

And in a challenge league to have a 6L with 20/20 gems in it, is, at least for myself, much more out of range.

You are right about the 6l. The only time most of us will ever have one on a challenge league is if we get lucky trying to get a 5L, and get a 6L instead. And, it'll prob. be on a WoE or whatever cheaper piece of gear you are currently using to tide you over until you can afford the BoR.

For most of us, BoR will be our 6l for the league.

But, if I RIP(On beyond), I'm not going to be able to afford another one. Buying just 1 completely tapped me out. I'll have to do a non-bor build, which I dont think is that that bad tbh.

Hm, I wont be getting 68/68 - I will most likely stay at 57/61 with 6k hp and 53% flat reduction before EC/pots. What I will get now going from 90 and upwards are the 2 easily accessible +1 extra endurance charge with the 0.2% life regen per EC and 18% extra duration.

Yes, I realize 57/61 is not optimal but I hope my reduction and hp will make up for it.

And as you can see in the FAQ, we never discussed how viable and affordable my version of the build was, only that in my very particular case BoR is not the optimal choice :) I even mentioned that 6L is less viable than getting a BoR, even though the costs in Beyond is like 15ex 6L WoE vs 8-9 ex BoR. And having BoR is of course linked to having extremely good items on the other slots to get max res.

What I also am able to get is very high(+18%chaos) resistance and highly overcapped on the other resists. So even disregarding the higher damage i get from my 6L it seems to me overall survivability is better.

But then again I started PoE in nemesis so my knowledge of the game is limited.

It's cool man, nobody is trying to deny it. I'm just saying you know :)

The three main points of BoR are blind+15% block+10% on block EC. If you feel like you do better without these 3, than of course use something else :)

For my part I mostly figured out that using BoR, my EC were like constantly up. Which means almost perma IC uptime. Which is sick.

But, there are obviously ways around BoR, it's not like BoR is the most ghetto overpowered uber must have helmet in PoE :)