VictorDoom's 2h Marauder, 7.7k life(no kaoms) huge dps[Uber Killed, with video] [2.0]

Just found the perfect leveling sword, wow. 230 dps at lvl 29. If it was one level lower, I wonder how much I could've sold this to a low level dueler.

Now only if I found a high level sword with the same stats...

"

VictorDoom wrote:

You could always try it with a faster axe, just to check how it is with high APS, its just so much damage when you stack both.

Attack speed will simply help you ditch out more dps and will make you tankier, if you use LGOH of course, not using any APS increase is simply not improving anything.

Even if you just go by the tooltip, you have an axe with slightly better pdps than my sword, i have 30k cyclone on the tooltip without any atziri promise or melee damage on full life, just the normal tank setup(cyclone-FA-MPD-CE-LGOH-BM) while still rocking 7.7k life on all rare gear.

With the rare sword showed in the gear section, which has slightly less pdps than your axe:

i get 40k tooltip on flask:http://i.imgur.com/HvO69xn.jpg

And 50k tooltip dps with added fire+flask which is a real usable setup: http://i.imgur.com/Zk8qefq.jpg


Also, mings heart is not that good, it gives me only 2k more dps than a IAS+Flat phys ring, which also has life and resits, also i lose 700 life if i replace a 70 life ring with mings, id take the rare ring over mings to be honest, unless you really need the chaos resist, 2k dps is not worth 700 life.


And if you dont go by the tooltip, you still get more dps from IAS, just because you attack more times in your cyclone spam

Okey, ill try one last time.




Whit this weapon, I attack 1.2 times per second via character sheet. My cyclone pulses every 0.82 sec. and shows 27k~ DPS.
http://imgur.com/D8iuXyd

But I do not attack every 0.82 sec. I attack at ~ 0.25 sec (4.0 attacks/s) without Quicksilver and at ~ 0.12 sec (8.0 attack/s),because I can recast it that often per second.
So my true dps is around 4 times - 6 times of my tooltip (80k - 120k). I NEVER DO THE 2ND PULSE HIT OF CYCLONE. I ALWAYS ONLY DEAL THE FIRST INSTANT CYCLONE HIT, 4 - 8 TIMES PER SECOND.

No ammount of attack speed would give that ammount of Hits per second, because I'd need a 5.0 attacks per second on the character sheet, which with the highest possible 2h sword would still need around 300% attackspeed after the 20% less modifier from cyclone.



It has its disadvantages, I agree. I cannot use LGOH, because recasting Cyclone 5-8 times per second costs. I can only use Lifereg and Lifeleech on gear.

But I do not need LGOH. 78 Maps trash dies while Cycloning through, as does Apex trash. The only time I am in need of Leech are bossses, and LGOH woulnd not help there much anyways when I have 700~ Lifereg/sec and 7%LL on top of that.

Therefore, I can use Inc.AOE for QOL and even add WED/added fire (wed gives me more dps), because I do not need FA.


FA and attackspeed have their merrits, and I agree, but for DPS it is not STRICLEY needed and if done right does nothing for your cyclone at all. (Because you do your INTIIAL hit faster AGAIN as your attackspeed would pulse.)

"

Vincendra wrote:

Okey, ill try one last time.

Whit this weapon, I attack 1.2 times per second via character sheet. My cyclone pulses every 0.82 sec. and shows 27k~ DPS.
http://imgur.com/D8iuXyd

But I do not attack every 0.82 sec. I attack at ~ 0.25 sec (4.0 attacks/s) without Quicksilver and at ~ 0.12 sec (8.0 attack/s),because I can recast it that often per second.
So my true dps is around 4 times - 6 times of my tooltip (80k - 120k). I NEVER DO THE 2ND PULSE HIT OF CYCLONE. I ALWAYS ONLY DEAL THE FIRST INSTANT CYCLONE HIT, 4 - 8 TIMES PER SECOND.

No ammount of attack speed would give that ammount of Hits per second, because I'd need a 5.0 attacks per second on the character sheet, which with the highest possible 2h sword would still need around 300% attackspeed after the 20% less modifier from cyclone.



It has its disadvantages, I agree. I cannot use LGOH, because recasting Cyclone 5-8 times per second costs. I can only use Lifereg and Lifeleech on gear.

But I do not need LGOH. 78 Maps trash dies while Cycloning through, as does Apex trash. The only time I am in need of Leech are bossses, and LGOH woulnd not help there much anyways when I have 700~ Lifereg/sec and 7%LL on top of that.

Therefore, I can use Inc.AOE for QOL and even add WED/added fire (wed gives me more dps), because I do not need FA.


FA and attackspeed have their merrits, and I agree, but for DPS it is not STRICLEY needed and if done right does nothing for your cyclone at all. (Because you do your INTIIAL hit faster AGAIN as your attackspeed would pulse.)

If you think youre doing 80k dps with that weapon you have obviously never had a character which actally had 80k dps



LGOH+LL+regen is the best possible defense for 2h (apart from acuity), im immortal against level 78 map corrupted boss, i can facetank any of them. you get regen, then leech cap and then life gain on hit which is not capped by anything, full life almost always.

If you want high and real dps you get attack speed and MS too, simple as that, you want decent on hit damage and high attack speed.

You know how you hit things 4-8 times or something? with IAS you increase that number multiplicatively because you spin faster every single cyclone.

Cyclone spins at your attack speed and deals damage 2 times PER spin, which means you always have your "attack speed X 2 hits", so i have 3.8 APS and wherever i click i will hit 7.6 times per spin withotut counting in my movement speed(which i have 59%). And whopdieedoo you can see attack speed will get MORE than what you think it cant get get. I cant be bothered to calculate the whole movespeed thing but i htink you can see that you get a lot more dps with stacking IAS and MS too.


Im trying to help you but ofc, you dont want to listen to me, or the other guys who have been cycloning to level 100 and are the #1 in pvp, who are all stacking MS and IAS, we have tested this on hit dmg thing you know? i did use it to see if i ditch all IAS and go for huge on hit damage thinking i might do better dps, it doesnt.

"

Vyvanne wrote:

Just found the perfect leveling sword, wow. 230 dps at lvl 29. If it was one level lower, I wonder how much I could've sold this to a low level dueler.

Now only if I found a high level sword with the same stats...

oh man its a shame thats at level 29, i think you could have gotten a lot for it from a dueler, but its a great leveling sword in anyway

Heh it would have around 500 pdps if it were on a high base though, i think you can even craft a similar one using masters, so youre gonna be ok at high level

Btw doesnt cyclone hits twice per hit or something like that. What this means is Attackspeed x 2. Tooltip is not showing the real DPS anyway.

"

Brayzz wrote:

Btw doesnt cyclone hits twice per hit or something like that. What this means is Attackspeed x 2. Tooltip is not showing the real DPS anyway.

yup, tooltip is always half of the actual dps you put out, it even feels a lot more than it says

basically my 30k is in reality 60k, and i if calculate like vincendra with all the movespeed(i have 59%) its a lot more than 60k

"

VictorDoom wrote:

If you think youre doing 80k dps with that weapon you have obviously never had a character which actally had 80k dps

My dualclaw reaver does 120k singletarget DPS with dualstrike and does not kill atziri as fast as my 28k tooldip dps mara

"

VictorDoom wrote:

LGOH+LL+regen is the best possible defense for 2h (apart from acuity), im immortal against level 78 map corrupted boss, i can facetank any of them. you get regen, then leech cap and then life gain on hit which is not capped by anything, full life almost always.

I agree. The big disadvantage of running Cyclone like I described is not only paying the cyclone cost up to 8 times/sec, but you can not use LGOH properly through that. If you only hit once per cylcone cast like I do most of the time, LGOH is a wasted spot. Running AS and using LGOH with wider spread Cyclone intervals is defenetly a PRO you can only achive with an AS Cyclone build.

"

VictorDoom wrote:

If you want high and real dps you get attack speed and MS too, simple as that, you want decent on hit damage and high attack speed.

You know how you hit things 4-8 times or something? with IAS you increase that number multiplicatively because you spin faster every single cyclone.

Cyclone spins at your attack speed and deals damage 2 times PER spin, which means you always have your "attack speed X 2 hits", so i have 3.8 APS and wherever i click i will hit 7.6 times per spin withotut counting in my movement speed(which i have 59%). And whopdieedoo you can see attack speed will get MORE than what you think it cant get get. I cant be bothered to calculate the whole movespeed thing but i htink you can see that you get a lot more dps with stacking IAS and MS too.

So you are telling me:

"

i will hit 7.6 times per spin

And I told you:

"

But I do not attack every 0.82 sec. I attack at ~ 0.25 sec (4.0 attacks/s) without Quicksilver and at ~ 0.12 sec (8.0 attack/s),because I can recast it that often per second.

You got a steady output of 7.6 attacks, I only get that while I quicksilver. You got the additional safty of LGOH, I got the addditional safty of stunning (because 11k hits stun in 78s maps all the time).

I want to emphasize:
You tick faster (every 0.15 sec, (7,6 attspd cyclone), I recast every 0 15. We both deal the same damage over the same time. You got more stability and sure output. I need to keep up Quicksilvers, so I can recast so fast (start->stop of cyclone is shorter with more ms). You got LGOH and saftey, I hit harder per hit.

I do not condone or look down on AS Cyclone. If I went HC Cyclone, I am sure id take the AS / LGOH route, since it is safer and your output is steady and your reg isnt used to recast several times per second.

BUT I also say you should not deny my side of using cycloone without using it. I tryed both EXTENSIVELY and would not write things here in forums if I didn't make sure myself.

As said, I got a 120k Dualstriker, and I can not bring Atziri from 100 -> 20% in one go, which my Cycloner did accomplish.

"

VictorDoom wrote:

Im trying to help you but ofc, you dont want to listen to me, or the other guys who have been cycloning to level 100 and are the #1 in pvp, who are all stacking MS and IAS, we have tested this on hit dmg thing you know? i did use it to see if i ditch all IAS and go for huge on hit damage thinking i might do better dps, it doesnt.

And I am trying to give you new intput how to use Cyclone.

I have tried NUMEROUS ways to use it. I have a 88 Mara on Std. with full respec and I tried going with FA and AS on gear/tree.

I found for me not to be in need of LGOH, so I ditched it and tryed a new way.



AGAIN. AS or FA on Cylone is not bad. It safer, its MORE reliable, it puts out enough for Atziri and 78 Maps. There is another way and you should try it yourself and judge afterwards.

"

Vincendra wrote:

My dualclaw reaver does 120k singletarget DPS with dualstrike and does not kill atziri as fast as my 28k tooldip dps mara

Im talking about 80k cyclone dps, not on other chars when i say that, i have 85k on my cyclone duelist, it downs atziri from 100 to 0 as soon as i see her, and i also have this with the RT sword, i can get to 80k tooltip RT on flask, it downs atziri even faster.

"

Vincendra wrote:

I agree. The big disadvantage of running Cyclone like I described is not only paying the cyclone cost up to 8 times/sec, but you can not use LGOH properly through that. If you only hit once per cylcone cast like I do most of the time, LGOH is a wasted spot. Running AS and using LGOH with wider spread Cyclone intervals is defenetly a PRO you can only achive with an AS Cyclone build.

yes using LGOH with a slow weapon with high damage is not effective at all since you only get about 200 life back in 1 cyclone if you hit many mobs, youre better off stacking more DPS like you do, but thats as you say one of the strong points of IAS.

"

Vincendra wrote:

So you are telling me:

"

i will hit 7.6 times per spin

And I told you:

"

But I do not attack every 0.82 sec. I attack at ~ 0.25 sec (4.0 attacks/s) without Quicksilver and at ~ 0.12 sec (8.0 attack/s),because I can recast it that often per second.

You got a steady output of 7.6 attacks, I only get that while I quicksilver. You got the additional safty of LGOH, I got the addditional safty of stunning (because 11k hits stun in 78s maps all the time).

I want to emphasize:
You tick faster (every 0.15 sec, (7,6 attspd cyclone), I recast every 0 15. We both deal the same damage over the same time. You got more stability and sure output. I need to keep up Quicksilvers, so I can recast so fast (start->stop of cyclone is shorter with more ms). You got LGOH and saftey, I hit harder per hit.

I do not condone or look down on AS Cyclone. If I went HC Cyclone, I am sure id take the AS / LGOH route, since it is safer and your output is steady and your reg isnt used to recast several times per second.

BUT I also say you should not deny my side of using cycloone without using it. I tryed both EXTENSIVELY and would not write things here in forums if I didn't make sure myself.

I tried it a lot, i even tried with AoF in pvp, it wrecks people really hard with high on hit damage, but then a friend who is one of the best 2h PvP-ers recommended that i should also stack attack speed and to find a balance between damage on hit and attack speed, its much better that way even in PvP, the on hit damage is lower(still high) but you do do that damage more times per second and more reliably.


Just for closure on this:

Im also not saying that going for high on hit damage and low AS is bad, it is good.

Im simply saying that its ineffective, you can do better if you get high APS and MS as well.

You can look at it like this: We do roughly similar DPS, but i have 1.5k more life and i also get huge tankyness from benefiting from life gain on hit, now imagine if i sacrifice those life nodes for damage, the damage when you compare the chars like this IAS will win every time, but i prefer being tanky and still keeping high damage.

Basically you sacrifice 1.5k life, LGOH and a flask slot for promise to get to roughly the same dps as me, that seems ineffective to me.

"

VictorDoom wrote:

"

Vyvanne wrote:

Just found the perfect leveling sword, wow. 230 dps at lvl 29. If it was one level lower, I wonder how much I could've sold this to a low level dueler.

Now only if I found a high level sword with the same stats...

oh man its a shame thats at level 29, i think you could have gotten a lot for it from a dueler, but its a great leveling sword in anyway

Heh it would have around 500 pdps if it were on a high base though, i think you can even craft a similar one using masters, so youre gonna be ok at high level

Yeah lol, I looked at your mirror sword and went HOLY SHIT ITS IDENTICAL just not the right base !

"

VictorDoom wrote:

"

Vincendra wrote:

My dualclaw reaver does 120k singletarget DPS with dualstrike and does not kill atziri as fast as my 28k tooldip dps mara

Im talking about 80k cyclone dps, not on other chars when i say that, i have 85k on my cyclone duelist, it downs atziri from 100 to 0 as soon as i see her, and i also have this with the RT sword, i can get to 80k tooltip RT on flask, it downs atziri even faster.

"

Vincendra wrote:

I agree. The big disadvantage of running Cyclone like I described is not only paying the cyclone cost up to 8 times/sec, but you can not use LGOH properly through that. If you only hit once per cylcone cast like I do most of the time, LGOH is a wasted spot. Running AS and using LGOH with wider spread Cyclone intervals is defenetly a PRO you can only achive with an AS Cyclone build.

yes using LGOH with a slow weapon with high damage is not effective at all since you only get about 200 life back in 1 cyclone if you hit many mobs, youre better off stacking more DPS like you do, but thats as you say one of the strong points of IAS.

"

Vincendra wrote:

So you are telling me:

"

i will hit 7.6 times per spin

And I told you:

"

But I do not attack every 0.82 sec. I attack at ~ 0.25 sec (4.0 attacks/s) without Quicksilver and at ~ 0.12 sec (8.0 attack/s),because I can recast it that often per second.

You got a steady output of 7.6 attacks, I only get that while I quicksilver. You got the additional safty of LGOH, I got the addditional safty of stunning (because 11k hits stun in 78s maps all the time).

I want to emphasize:
You tick faster (every 0.15 sec, (7,6 attspd cyclone), I recast every 0 15. We both deal the same damage over the same time. You got more stability and sure output. I need to keep up Quicksilvers, so I can recast so fast (start->stop of cyclone is shorter with more ms). You got LGOH and saftey, I hit harder per hit.

I do not condone or look down on AS Cyclone. If I went HC Cyclone, I am sure id take the AS / LGOH route, since it is safer and your output is steady and your reg isnt used to recast several times per second.

BUT I also say you should not deny my side of using cycloone without using it. I tryed both EXTENSIVELY and would not write things here in forums if I didn't make sure myself.

I tried it a lot, i even tried with AoF in pvp, it wrecks people really hard with high on hit damage, but then a friend who is one of the best 2h PvP-ers recommended that i should also stack attack speed and to find a balance between damage on hit and attack speed, its much better that way even in PvP, the on hit damage is lower(still high) but you do do that damage more times per second and more reliably.


Just for closure on this:

Im also not saying that going for high on hit damage and low AS is bad, it is good.

Im simply saying that its ineffective, you can do better if you get high APS and MS as well.

You can look at it like this: We do roughly similar DPS, but i have 1.5k more life and i also get huge tankyness from benefiting from life gain on hit, now imagine if i sacrifice those life nodes for damage, the damage when you compare the chars like this IAS will win every time, but i prefer being tanky and still keeping high damage.

Basically you sacrifice 1.5k life, LGOH and a flask slot for promise to get to roughly the same dps as me, that seems ineffective to me.

You are talking about a ET /EX weapon, mine is 15% less effective. I am using inc. AOE whcih can be swapped out for another dm gem (added fire/wed if im running melee full life on my mana setup).

Your weapon costs about 300 ex (?) to craft, I achive "roughly" the same dps with 1/10th of the cost. Yes, I sacrifice roughly 18 points into damage nodes, which could net me those "missing" 1,5k life. I just dont feel its necesarry.

"

Basically you sacrifice 1.5k life, LGOH and a flask slot for promise to get to roughly the same dps as me, that seems ineffective to me.

Doing "roughly" the same with 1/10th of the investment seems VERY effective to me.

Feel free to post a normal Atziri Vid. I will do the same for my build as soon as I am done with it. It may take another month on torment to achive those currency levels to craft a Karui chopper of ET/EX lvl, but I think I can make it in this temp league.

Never the less, please showcase your build in an Atziri run. You can find my Budged Atziri run in my Guide in the mara forum (5l Cyclone, Kaoms primacy. 30C budget run).