GGGs reasoning on not making a SFL?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It's hypocritical as fuck to allow trading between characters you happen to own, while prohibiting trading with characters you happen to not own.

That's the worst straw arguement I ever saw.

The characters you happen to not own.. Why play the game at all if you put other people's characters and your own in the same category? Just check someone's account be proud of that character as if it is your own, after all you just happen not to own that char, right?

I played D2 for many years SFL making new builds/new chars with items I found with others.
Why? Because when I find X item I say myself "I can build such a char with that!"

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symban wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It's hypocritical as fuck to allow trading between characters you happen to own, while prohibiting trading with characters you happen to not own.

That's the worst straw arguement I ever saw.

The characters you happen to not own.. Why play the game at all if you put other people's characters and your own in the same category? Just check someone's account be proud of that character as if it is your own, after all you just happen not to own that char, right?

I played D2 for many years SFL making new builds/new chars with items I found with others.
Why? Because when I find X item I say myself "I can build such a char with that!"

Ya and the characters that you pimped out with that gear weren't self found. =P

That is why characters are flagged as solo self found and not the account.

POE uses a system that says what class gets what skills and when,getting skills outside of that list by any other means than finding them nulls that characters self found as he didn't find them,he was given them,even if it was by you.

Rather much the same as giving this supposedly solo self found character a build enabling unique and claiming the character is still solo self found because you gave it to them.


=)

Well, another observation from outside - just look at this thread.

There are 50 people and 50 different opinions on how SFL is even defined (defined being the important part here).

I do not envy GGG for being bombarded by SFL threads when "SFL" is being defined differently by every other person. In this case, I even think doing nothing and wait is the most logical thing. There is a real risk that even if they implement "SFL" and announce it tomorrow, majority of SFL promoters will just go on complaining, saying "but this is not THAT SFL I promised to take part in and support..."

In my opinion, without coherent and precisely defined "SFL" term and a band of people that all agree on that single definition, there will be no progress in this matter.

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DogFaceNoSpace wrote:

The whole point of an aRPG is to find cool gear and build certain characters around said gear.

But you do realize that trading makes the gear you find more valuable and thus improves your gear finding experience? It's not a hard concept to grasp.

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aldorus wrote:

Well, another observation from outside - just look at this thread.

There are 50 people and 50 different opinions on how SFL is even defined (defined being the important part here).

I do not envy GGG for being bombarded by SFL threads when "SFL" is being defined differently by every other person. In this case, I even think doing nothing and wait is the most logical thing. There is a real risk that even if they implement "SFL" and announce it tomorrow, majority of SFL promoters will just go on complaining, saying "but this is not THAT SFL I promised to take part in and support..."

In my opinion, without coherent and precisely defined "SFL" term and a band of people that all agree on that single definition, there will be no progress in this matter.

Which is why I support changes that effect every league,rather than a new league (at this time).I also don't support higher drop rates of gear or orbs and would rather see quality of gambling/crafting/recipes continue to be tweaked.

There is one surefire solo self found application and that is

Checkmark this character
No trade
Access to it's own stash only
no party
no item drop from inventory


But I don't believe for one second I'd have support for those requirements. =P

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Xavderion wrote:

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DogFaceNoSpace wrote:

The whole point of an aRPG is to find cool gear and build certain characters around said gear.

But you do realize that trading makes the gear you find more valuable and thus improves your gear finding experience? It's not a hard concept to grasp.

some people like to keep the items they find themselfs... and build characters out of it... i know its hard to grasp

I'd prefer a character to be able to party while self found yet require the loot be on permanent allocation. There'd also at least need to be a choice on whether or not to have a shared stash, because if you're on your fifth character and want to make a specific build, it'd be nice not having to farm Mud Flats for hours hoping for a damn Puncture gem. Likewise, a cheap but build enabling unique like Facebreakers would almost be required for later characters.

I understand the joy of building a character around what you find, but after multiple runs, people would like to put some of their other items to use too.

OK, so explain to me as a SFL mindset rookie :

There are this two really great builds I would like to try.

Build I needs uniques X, Y and Z to be effective.
Build II needs uniques Q, W and E to be effective.

While going self-found, I managed to find uniques X, Q and T.

And you are telling me you are going to have a better time ("fun factor") than someone in a "normal" league, that could trade X for W, T for E and at least try build II compared to a guy from SFL, that was lucky on drops, but is unable to assemble an effective build out of it?

I still do not believe there will not be a rain of tears about exactly this as soon as SFL is possible. But I am open-minded and am waiting for explanations to really understand.

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meekoo12 wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

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DogFaceNoSpace wrote:

The whole point of an aRPG is to find cool gear and build certain characters around said gear.

But you do realize that trading makes the gear you find more valuable and thus improves your gear finding experience? It's not a hard concept to grasp.

some people like to keep the items they find themselfs... and build characters out of it... i know its hard to grasp

Which is fine and enjoyable,it's understandable.

So long as the character finding them is the one using them.


But not for one second are twinked characters solo self found or ever will be because they were given what they don't have access to.


=)

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

1. The benefit of getting some value out of something they're not built to use; for example, a caster trading away a Multistrike to a melee character gets much more than value than actually using the Multistrike on that caster. This is a benefit which is exactly equal between the two forms of trading; trading between players and within players, it doesn't matter, same benefit.

OK, lets humour you and agree.
My caster finding a MS gem and giving it to a melee is exactly the same as if that caster had sold it to another player.

OK, now, what about


Then at the other end of the scale, what if that caster, nor the melee, nor any of the characters, basically ME, what if I hadn't found a MS gem? How can that be regarded as exactly the same as someone buying one from the ones available easily through trade?


Summary.
I could go hundreds of hours without a MS gem, I could then find one on a caster and give it to my melee character, or I could find it on the melee. I cold then find dozens more over the next few thousand hours (which I did, giving shit loads away) which I don't sell.

But those hundreds of hours without are not considered and because it just may have been the caster I found the MS on, while the melee uses it, this is considered exactly the same as trading. Even with the dozens more MS gems that come in later and are not liquidated.

Yup.