Love playing PoE? Tired of trading or RMT - or do you enjoy either? Vote here!
" You have to realize that this is completely false. How do you keep saying stuff like this that is so obviously not true? Do you even know what pay to win is? I can tell you its not paying for a league to happen. " I am going to say again (respectfully), that you still have no complaints that make any sense whatsoever. Standard Forever
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" This is all you've been doing in this thread. And you are absolutely blind to anything else but your delusions. So basically what you are doing is you create imaginary scenarios based on false assumptions (which you actually believe) and then use the produced idea as a "counter argument" to SFL. You do not contribute to the discussion in any way, you do not bring in any valid points, you do not propose any actual changes to the matter, and you intentionally add a dash of flame to each and every single of your posts. Instead you just make pointless threats, fake propositions and delusional claims to try and completely destroy the thread (textbook case of provocation). Because it's easy to derail threads like that, you're allowed to do that and participants trying to actually discuss something don't know what else to do and instead of just consistently ignoring you they try to fight back, which is exactly what you wish - it slowly derails the thread. I am baffled by your inability to see how your "arguments" and "examples" make no sense whatsoever. Even more so after you've not found a single (not a single!) like-minded participant in the discussion (and there are quite a few actively participating). Every single one of your proposed issues about SFL has either a very simple answer to it or it is completely false itself. The difference between what are are discussing here, and all the pointless examples you've been trying to set against it, is that you are the one who thinks he knows hard facts on the proposed matter and what is it exactly that GGG wants to do with their game. Who do you think you are to give us absolute answers and claim superior knowledge? The facts that you have a supporter tag publicly showing (you said this), or that you are American (and this one to an even crazier outrage), or that you dislike the idea of SFL, certainly don't give you any right to do this. Life is tough... but it is tougher if you're stupid.
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" I do not wish to derail the thread. I am listing my concerns. Yes my scenarios are base on what I am reading from this thread which may or may not be exactly how SFL actually works. I want to reach a common denominator where both sides (Yay and Nay) can come to an agreement. Currently all the yay say'ers are all over the place. One guy even said he wanted buff drop rates to a 1:10 rate. Do all yay say'ers agree with this? because this would be extreme. He said something like if he plays 100hrs (in the SFL with increase drops) he want to be as wealthy in items, as progressed in character development as if he played 1000hrs in current leagues with only self found. That is bizarre. Maybe not all of you agree with this but this would mean if he found 10ex in 1000hrs of game play he should be able to find 100ex in 1000hrs of game play in the new SFL. That is completely unfair. Also I found a solution to my concern about someone abusing IIQ/IIR and selling there service as an magic finder for RMT. What if IIQ/IIR was the averaged out between all party members this would completely remove my concern for this matter. So to make it easier for you let me list my concerns. - Split community because of special treatment . You may think increase drops is compensation but some will view as special treatment - Budget cuts for other development . You said that people will pay a premium to play your dream SFL. However paying to get increase drop rates is pay to win. You said I do not understand the concept of pay to win but the concept is actually easy, you pay to get power. If you do not agree with this than GGG should sell a microtransaction that increases our drop rates. And now its a new concern. - Less people to play with in other leagues because of further splitting players . You may say that its better to play with people with similar interest but the in-game economy is a real thing and could crash do to scarcity. And then what if yall are more rewarded news travels fast someone will be like 6L Shavs on first Brutus kill Merciless. This would make me want to play SFL so than I do it and I am stuck with another dilemma that I cannot trade my gear with my friends and family. You may say well you wouldn't need to because they can easily find their items too except the problem is they don't play as much as I do so the opportunity for them to find gear is less. Then I will be stuck in limbo do I play other leagues or SFL and do you think I am the only one that would feel like this? Others will be in limbo too and eventually we will quit. SFL will destroy the longevity of the game. Ever heard of Reinventing the wheel vs Improving the wheel Basically, if you try to reinvent the wheel in gaming it will fail history has proven this Diablo invented the wheel, good game. Diablo 2 improved the wheel, better game. Diablo 3 reinvented the wheel, bad game. Everquest invented the wheel, good game. World of Warcraft improved the wheel, better game. WoW:The Burning Crusader further improved the wheel, even better game Guild Wars 2 reinvented the wheel, bad game If POE tries to reinvent the wheel history dictates it will fail. Don't do it guys. |
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I wanted to respond to your list of concerns only, but the intro of your post definitely needs some explanation as well.
" There are ways to make your voice heard. Forcing things is never a good idea. Your scenarios are based on ideas pulled out of context (I will go back to this in a moment). And no, your scenarios are not how we imagine SFL to work. " One voice not heard from several mouths makes not a point to judge the group. I agree. His proposition is bizarre. Which is why not a single SFL supporter with feet firm on the ground agreed with him or took it seriously. " Had you read things carefully since you joined the discussion, you would have noticed a few posts where IIQ/IIR is even considered obsolete. I would honestly like it the most if self found type of league had no IIQ/IIR affixes whatsoever. I think that would solve several issues tied to the MF mechanic and make the game better. " We do not wish for any special treatment which would make the game easier. If anything, we want to play another type of hardcore league. This is a good simplification, because it makes it impossible to make a false assumption of that kind anymore. " No. We said "we would give financial support to a dedicated SFL". And this is completely different to what you chose to read from it. Budget cuts for other development is an argument only GGG could bring in - we have no idea how they are doing financially. All the hype about "not fixing important issues" is pointless, because even if they had several millions ready there is only a limited amount of fixes they could put out in a certain time frame, and a whole lot of "fixes" require major game changes which cannot be pushed out without intensive testing and hundreds of hours of coding. GGG has reasons to schedule their work as they deem fit, and we have our own point of view of what should be fixed when. " If I don't contribute to the economy, and I quit playing, what does the economy lose? Nothing. At all. So the same example might be used for SFL - if I'm not contributing to the economy right now, and I move to a SFL, what does the economy lose? Nothing. At all. If 2+2+0=4, 2+2-0=4 as well. " This is exactly what I addressed in my last post. You imagined a situation based on false assumptions, got a consequently wrong idea and then used it to try and argument the claim that "SFL will destroy the longevity of the game". Lets say you are playing Standard league right now. Ambush just opened up a day ago, and a guy got a 6L Shav drop from Merciless Brutus. This would want to make you play Ambush, but your family and friends are playing Standard as well, so you would be stuck with another dilemma that you cannot trade with them. So you are now stuck in limbo do you play Standard or Ambush and feel there are tons of people feeling the same, eventually all of you quitting. Do you see now what that sounds like? Textbook case of envy, which makes you think there are some unknown forces at work in Ambush which make 6L Shavs rain from Act 1 bosses! " This is a subjective view of things which makes it irrelevant to any large discussion. A lot of people hated D2, loved D3, hated WoW and loved GW2. That still doesn't mean those were good games - neither does it mean they were bad games. The "history will repeat itself" argument could be used in any situation, and it wouldn't invalidate any of them, simply because it is not factual but more of a guessing nature (anything trying to predict the future cannot be considered a fact). Hey, an SFL might turn out to be the best move ever for PoE and push GGG to insane levels. Or it might be a major disappointment, maybe like Invasion for the first few weeks, to give an example (I'm not satisfied with that example, honestly, but it should suffice). Life is tough... but it is tougher if you're stupid.
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Venator,
You are the first to answer me. I trust you if you say it will not break the game. You seem wise and i am not a smart man therefore I must trust those that are wise. There is still one small thing. If you contribute 0 and leave nothing is loss true. But some are contributing and what if they leave also? As for your Ambush example after the next ladder rolls in all characters are transfer to standard or am I assuming falsely? If its true I can eventually trade. Anyways, your band of brothers are stronger than mine. Also, you did not address my concern, if you pay for SFL and it includes inc drop rate wouldn't that be pay to win cause you are essentially buying power. I really don't feel like its compensation but if you say it is than I trust you. Happy gaming and I hope your SFL comes true. I will still quit the game though so look me up when the time comes so I can give me gear away. |
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" I'd rather not comment on the first paragraph. As for the second paragraph, it is raising the concern of "playerbase splitting" again. The assumption - as pointed out in the OP - is that introducing a new league conceptualized as "self found" would renew interest in PoE for some, and bring others to the game interested in the particular play-style as well. While the concern that some might leave the current leagues in order to play in an SFL is correct, the counter arguments are that SFL would bring in much more than it would take away on a global scale, and that a lot if not all of the people who would permanently stick to SFL were not satisfied playing the existing leagues anyway, which might have resulted in them quitting instead. It is also true that a lot of people who would naturally try SFL simply wouldn't like it, and would quite soon return to their original leagues (you know, the hype of a fresh league syndrome). " That's correct, yes. Eventually is months away, though... When starting a new league, GGG presents you with a description of it - I liked the description of Ambush hence my characters in Ambush. I didn't like that I would lose my character from the league if I was playing Invasion/HC, so I didn't play that league. A bit simplified, there are other reasons in play, but it should be the same thing with SFL. People engaging in it would be fully informed that a lot of mechanics are disabled for that league and that the league is strictly separated from the rest. SFLs are obviously not the place for groups of people who would like to share their wealth - and considering that it would be inherently harder than the current leagues there is no reason to pick it as their league of choice. This is why we are not asking for the whole game to change - it would be unfair towards a great amount of people who actually enjoy the trade option. " Being proven wrong or right in a discussion has nothing to do with the amount of people participating. What you should actually be saying instead is "you might actually have a fine idea there which doesn't influence me in any negative sense, but might actually help improve the game overall". One thing definitely needs to be noted here - unless there is a real test initiated by GGG, all our claims are merely guesses. What Petrov is trying to achieve with the poll is a bit of actual proof that there is a large number of players who would like to see this happen. It is not an official GGG poll and hence should not be taken as relevant, but we can't know for sure until we see what happens in the future. " There have been various ideas proposed on how to correctly balance an SFL. Of course there were bizarre ones such as "increase everything by 1000%", but there were also actually constructive ones. Worth noting that every single constructive idea involved currency only. Currency which in a non-trading league is only good for crafting - and we all know how horrible crafting is in this game. Considering the currency drop rates are balanced around a trading environment, slight boosts to certain orb drops seem most fair. This does not mean nor want to imply that SFL players should have dozens of exalts dropping giving them what they would've had if they properly traded in other leagues. That would be unfair, just as you pointed out. As for paying for SFL, I don't think anyone expects to see any sort of "fee" to be able to play it. We are merely offering continued financial support in form of buying MTX and support packs. (and this is not to say we are even implying trying to bribe GGG or anything similar!) " This is just that dash of drama you never like to leave out of your posts. I'm sorry but I can't really see this as an honest wish. At best it just sounds principally stubborn - and that just isn't a good approach to anything. Life is tough... but it is tougher if you're stupid.
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I don't present it as drama, you perceive it as drama. I mean to rage no one nor am I raging myself its simply a statement. Not everyone is the same. I do not wish to go into detail. But I suffer physiological disorder as well as physical disability that I've acquired thigh through serving in the military. So apologize if my behavior maybe be unfit. Anyways take care.
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is the poll still open?
I'm voting YES for the SFL if so. I think this whole idea is the hell pox for GGG... They don't get to design their game anymore, once enough people get behind something they pretty much have to give in if they are going to remain consistent. Chris used the same word to describe why "loot tension" was in the game and "why ggg is against soul bound items" that word? IMPORTANT, know what that means? All you need to do is bump this thread to 999 pages. just do it, you'll see, the league will happen. Already, because of the dominance of the PA loot setting and absence of FFA more specifically, nobody needs to go outside their comfort zone and share loot or to make friends to get a "non compete" advantage with SA loot. But now with this SFL, its a step further and also removes the ability for friends and guilds to share items or trade. It's really just super perm-permanent loot setting only league. (when really GGG should be making a FFA loot cutthroat style one if they were true to what they started) Here's how you sell it: "no need to fight over loot, to bother trading, making friends, or learning item prices and still get all the advantages!" I predict a good portion of the players would go to the SFL eventually. Trading is a pain in the ass for most and new players get ripped off all the time! right? Just like with forced "loot competition" where they lost drops before they added PA loot setting. The undecideds will play where the majority goes. (just like how 99% of public games use PA loot now) BTW: this thread could never exist, or at least would have been be dismissed outright if "loot tension" was still a required part of the game... I support SFL, IMO GGG brought this on themselves, and I'm curious what you guys will complain about next once you get your league. |
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" Entertainmant at its best. I know solo self found because .... Krip. lol Being a krip follower you must surely be aware of his view on how wonderfull an experience solo self found was in POE by his melee solo self found challenge that a tiny portion of the POE community even bothered to play in..... because ... no trade or party. Last edited by Temper#7820 on Apr 23, 2014, 12:55:29 AM
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" As a trader you'll be severly disappointed in your total net *wealth* in a SFL. lol |
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