So Vaal orbs Unsocket and unlink a 6L..

"

raics wrote:

And it stinks of MMO far to much, to be honest, in ARPG when you reroll an item you might get a similarly good one but you get something different every time. The reroll mechanics shit-nothing-woohoo is a typical MMO hook. Not saying there's anything wrong with it being used there, but I don't think it fits ARPG mentality.

What is this nebulous "ARPG mentality" you are referring to. Can you define it? Also let's not forget MMOs are spinoffs from the ARPG genre, not the other way around.

I will concede the Vaal orb has sublime potential. And for me this came as a surprise. Nonetheless, I don't presently see any reason why it should not. Furthermore, its impact on itemization and the overall economy is hugely beneficial. To be specific, it provides new top tier itemization, an item sink (which inhibits the "bad loot" syndrome), and more difficult content in the form of corrupted maps.

If this 'mini-expansion' added nothing but the Vaal orb I would have seen it as a huge success. Disappointment in the Vaal skills, the soul system, PvP, etc. is all outweighed by this single addition.

"

Veta321 wrote:

What is this nebulous "ARPG mentality" you are referring to. Can you define it? Also let's not forget MMOs are spinoffs from the ARPG genre, not the other way around.

I will concede the Vaal orb has sublime potential. And for me this came as a surprise. Nonetheless, I don't presently see any reason why it should not. Furthermore, its impact on itemization and the overall economy is hugely beneficial. To be specific, it provides new top tier itemization, an item sink (which inhibits the "bad loot" syndrome), and more difficult content in the form of corrupted maps.

If this 'mini-expansion' added nothing but the Vaal orb I would have seen it as a huge success. Disappointment in the Vaal skills, the soul system, PvP, etc. is all outweighed by this single addition.

I can try: MMOs are designed around online social experience, guilds, raids, pvp, playing the game is sort of a reward of its own. ARPG prevalently spins around one thing only - loot... yes, we're just a bunch of greedy basterds :)
The kind of bastards that hate getting a 'poof' for their trouble, bad roll - yes, but 'poof' - no.

Yes, the orb can be used on trash items, but it doesn't make it an item sink, those items were destined to vendor in case of rares or chance orb recipe if unique. It sinks absolutely nothing and its benefit for mappers is highly questionable as they can't even find it in maps so they have to trade for it with rerollers.

Might be said it's more of a 4-month league thing as there will be much more players playing from scratch, in perma leagues there is nowhere closely enough players that reroll content to be able to supply all the mappers with orbs.

Do we all understand the concept of "sacrifice"?


When you apply a VO you are laying your item on the Altar of Atziri, and she is either going to accept or reject your sacrifice. As is the case with many gods that demand sacrifice, she is a fickle mistress, and will not be consistent with her graces.

No priest is forcing you to that altar, you come willingly, sacrifice in hand. If you aren't prepared to lose it forever then you shouldn't put it there in the first place.

Ehhh i think the larger point of issue , is that ggg added even more mechanics to the game that can be seen as gambling.


now every time i see a vaal orb i think of one of the many other orbs that could have dropped instead.

like a trans orb or an alteration orb.

We already had a shit load of rng , did we really REALLY need more? Is there a point to such redundancy?

If the vaal orb only affected socket color or the implicit mod then that would be one thing since we dont have one of those.


but we have an orb that does sockets
we have an orb that changes rares
we have an orb that adds quality


it seems ass backwards to introduce another orb that does a similar (if far less consistent) function.

If sotv is going to start a trend of just adding more of the same but not as good .. its going to be extremely hard to come back to it every 4 months.

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

Do we all understand the concept of "sacrifice"?


When you apply a VO you are laying your item on the Altar of Atziri, and she is either going to accept or reject your sacrifice. As is the case with many gods that demand sacrifice, she is a fickle mistress, and will not be consistent with her graces.

No priest is forcing you to that altar, you come willingly, sacrifice in hand. If you aren't prepared to lose it forever then you shouldn't put it there in the first place.

Same happens in Las vegas, you sacrifice some of your money and wait for Queen Casino to accept it.

"

Inexium2 wrote:

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

Do we all understand the concept of "sacrifice"?


When you apply a VO you are laying your item on the Altar of Atziri, and she is either going to accept or reject your sacrifice. As is the case with many gods that demand sacrifice, she is a fickle mistress, and will not be consistent with her graces.

No priest is forcing you to that altar, you come willingly, sacrifice in hand. If you aren't prepared to lose it forever then you shouldn't put it there in the first place.

Same happens in Las vegas, you sacrifice some of your money and wait for Queen Casino to accept it.

And I suppose you want to blame the casino for gambler that "bets the farm" on a "sucker bet."

-5/10 on gambling analogy, but 5/10 for the effort. (Haters gonna hate)

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

"

Inexium2 wrote:

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

Do we all understand the concept of "sacrifice"?


When you apply a VO you are laying your item on the Altar of Atziri, and she is either going to accept or reject your sacrifice. As is the case with many gods that demand sacrifice, she is a fickle mistress, and will not be consistent with her graces.

No priest is forcing you to that altar, you come willingly, sacrifice in hand. If you aren't prepared to lose it forever then you shouldn't put it there in the first place.

Same happens in Las vegas, you sacrifice some of your money and wait for Queen Casino to accept it.

And I suppose you want to blame the casino for gambler that "bets the farm" on a "sucker bet."

-5/10 on gambling analogy, but 5/10 for the effort. (Haters gonna hate)

Soon you will be able to corrupt your own character and become a rogue exile. RDV in a few months/years!

No further regret orbs can be applied, damn i guess i have to reroll.

"

raics wrote:

I can try: MMOs are designed around online social experience, guilds, raids, pvp, playing the game is sort of a reward of its own. ARPG prevalently spins around one thing only - loot... yes, we're just a bunch of greedy basterds :)
The kind of bastards that hate getting a 'poof' for their trouble, bad roll - yes, but 'poof' - no.

I'm not sure socialization and ARPGs are mutually exclusive. The most infamous was Diablo 2, which by all counts, was the most social game Blizzard had ever made up to that point, and is only second to WoW. Would it be fair to say this is your own personal preference, rather than a general heuristic of the ARPG genre?

"

Yes, the orb can be used on trash items, but it doesn't make it an item sink, those items were destined to vendor in case of rares or chance orb recipe if unique. It sinks absolutely nothing and its benefit for mappers is highly questionable as they can't even find it in maps so they have to trade for it with rerollers.

So the item sink inherent to Vaal Orbs is more of a soft sink. When it rerolls an item it essentially renders it worthless (barring amazing luck) and thus "sinks" it. So, when Vaal orbs are used on items with some trade value, in the aggregate their scarcity will be affected. That is good because more scarce items means less market saturation - which means more valuable and satisfying loot.

"

Might be said it's more of a 4-month league thing as there will be much more players playing from scratch, in perma leagues there is nowhere closely enough players that reroll content to be able to supply all the mappers with orbs.

I agree with that assessment. I'd go so far as to say it will ultimately have a negligible impact on the permanent leagues, because they're so inundated with items that Vaal orbs will never make a great enough dent in item saturation to alleviate the 'bad loot syndrome'. In this regard Vaal orbs are more of an item saturation inhibitor, like Hardcore mode, rather than a consistent economy-regulating item sink - which I still think POE could use.

Yet another interesting idea that is once again fucked over because of GGG's obsession with the Random Number Generator that they seem to almost have a sexual fetish investment with. When I first saw the Vaal Orb, I thought it'd be something I'd try throwing at my gear to see if I would get anything out of it, and if not then I'd lose my chance at those potential boosts. That, and the fact I'd be stuck with the socket colors I'd get, but I could live with that in the end and work around it...seemed like enough risk to me. Thank goodness I didn't try and now seeing that you can actually break good gear into something far worse...I will never use them. The only things I'll use these orbs on are:

1. Maps
2. Skill Gems
3. Low-level Uniques that I use for twinking during the leveling process.

Maybe one other thing, but on gear like this:



I will not even bother. The problem is, once again, GGG steps up to the RNG plate and hits a homerun by failing on the whole risk vs. reward factor. Well-rolled gear, 6L'd gear, and even some of the legacy uniques will be off limits and players are going (and have) to quickly learn not to risk their gear with these orbs. Gear like that requires a lot of investment, time, currency, etc, etc, and for all of that to be undone with one orb and no chance to undo the results...nope...fail in my eyes. The more cynical side of me sees this as GGG's way to try and sink items powerful items and hope people are dumb enough to it. Well, they got some people already, but now that the secret is out, more people are going to just say 'HELL NO!' and keep their gear the way it is.

The rewards just don't outweigh the risks in my eyes, and what looked like to be a good idea is going to be a major flop. Well, ok, maybe not a major one, but these orbs had potential to actually be quite nice, but the obsession with RNG will kill them off. With a game that is already piled sky high with more RNG than any other game I've ever played, it's just a shame that this potential 'sacrifice' is going to turn out to be just another amount of RNG bullshit that doesn't need to be here.

"

Tanakeah wrote:

I will not even bother. The problem is, once again, GGG steps up to the RNG plate and hits a homerun by failing on the whole risk vs. reward factor. Well-rolled gear, 6L'd gear, and even some of the legacy uniques will be off limits and players are going (and have) to quickly learn not to risk their gear with these orbs. Gear like that requires a lot of investment, time, currency, etc, etc, and for all of that to be undone with one orb and no chance to undo the results...nope...fail in my eyes. The more cynical side of me sees this as GGG's way to try and sink items powerful items and hope people are dumb enough to it. Well, they got some people already, but now that the secret is out, more people are going to just say 'HELL NO!' and keep their gear the way it is.

The rewards just don't outweigh the risks in my eyes, and what looked like to be a good idea is going to be a major flop. Well, ok, maybe not a major one, but these orbs had potential to actually be quite nice, but the obsession with RNG will kill them off. With a game that is already piled sky high with more RNG than any other game I've ever played, it's just a shame that this potential 'sacrifice' is going to turn out to be just another amount of RNG bullshit that doesn't need to be here.

This appears intentional to me. In fact I was advocating for a T2 (as in not top tier) item sink for a while. The purpose being to desaturate the market of T2 items and to ameliorate the "bad loot syndrome" that so plagues leagues after a few months. That's what the Vaal Orb seems to do. Once the novelty wears off it'll be determined whether that's indeed what it does, or if they're just another mapping currency.

To put it succinctly, Vaal Orbs are not meant to be used on T1 items - but people will gamble and it'll only benefit everyone else when they lose.