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Fruz wrote:
Stop making assessments like this, you don't know how they store their datas.
The whole world runs on relational databases. Because they are designed for extremely fast & convenient data manipulation.
It's a fair assumption that "technical difficulties" are bollocks.
When night falls
She cloaks the world
In impenetrable darkness
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Posted bymorbo#1824on Feb 13, 2014, 9:46:53 AM
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Fruz wrote:
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morbo wrote:
Yes most likely. But this work is really nothing amazingly complex. The pre-nerf stats of item of type X are known, the post nerf stats are also known. All you need to do is select all the items of type X and point them to newly generated stats.
All this talk "stats are saved on the item" - what does that even mean? All data is stored in relational tables. Item X is connected to all its stats through field-to-field ids. All this relations can be easily changed to point to different stats. They could change your Kaoms into a Shvronne, or some mix of both items, with one SQL statement.
(unless GGG uses some alien database system that no one in the world does, or they really fvked up the design to begin with)
Stop making assessments like this, you don't know how they store their datas.
And I can bet that every single item instance is stored somewhere, with its final values.
It seems that only the ranges are stored in other tables ( which is only normal ).
Did you just tell him to stop making assessments about their database design, and then proceed to make your own assessments about it?
Are you serious?
This isn't a terribly difficult concept to comprehend...There are many commonalities in different database designs. The important parts that he mentioned don't go into specifics, they talk about these common relations (that should be there).
How long it takes and what sort of downtime is required for changes to be performed is a totally separate argument to me. The key point is that this isn't some insanely tedious or difficult task... It should ideally only take one script to do this, not a "custom script for each item". That is nonsense, end of story.
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Posted bybraheem#3729on Feb 13, 2014, 9:48:31 AM
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morbo wrote:
"
Fruz wrote:
Stop making assessments like this, you don't know how they store their datas.
The whole world runs on relational databases. Because they are designed for extremely fast & convenient data manipulation.
It's a fair assumption that "technical difficulties" are bollocks.
And still by assuming that they must not store the values for each item and thinking that it's against standards relational schemes, you are showing that you most-likely don't understand their database management ( from what they say ).
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Ezekeel wrote:
Either you man up and properly maintain the standard leagues or I personally will be done with this game once my char is dumped into the broken trash league.
snap !
They cannot content everyone anyway.
EDIT :
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braheem wrote:
Did you just tell him to stop making assessments about their database design, and then proceed to make your own assessments about it?
Are you serious?
Show me where I made an assessment in my last post, I dare you to do so without looking ridiculous :].
Maybe I should have used "statement" all the time instead of assessment ( my non-native english side shown up there ), doesn't change anyway.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Feb 13, 2014, 9:55:32 AM
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Posted byFruz#6137on Feb 13, 2014, 9:50:41 AM
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"
Fruz wrote:
"
morbo wrote:
"
Fruz wrote:
Stop making assessments like this, you don't know how they store their datas.
The whole world runs on relational databases. Because they are designed for extremely fast & convenient data manipulation.
It's a fair assumption that "technical difficulties" are bollocks.
And still by assuming that they must not store the values for each item and thinking that it's against standards relational schemes, you are showing that you most-likely don't understand their database management ( from what they say ).
"
Ezekeel wrote:
Either you man up and properly maintain the standard leagues or I personally will be done with this game once my char is dumped into the broken trash league.
snap !
They cannot content everyone anyway.
EDIT :
"
braheem wrote:
Did you just tell him to stop making assessments about their database design, and then proceed to make your own assessments about it?
Are you serious?
Show me where I made an assessment in my last post, I dare you to do so without looking ridiculous/stupid :].
Dude you really shouldn't try to talk about things that you are not knowledgeable about. It is very clear in your writing that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Please... just stop.
"And I can bet that every single item instance is stored somewhere, with its final values.
It seems that only the ranges are stored in other tables ( which is only normal )"
These are both assessments... not sure what you're on about buddy.
Last edited by braheem#3729 on Feb 13, 2014, 9:56:43 AM
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Posted bybraheem#3729on Feb 13, 2014, 9:55:12 AM
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/lol
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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Posted byFruz#6137on Feb 13, 2014, 9:56:00 AM
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lol^
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Posted bymobutu#5362on Feb 13, 2014, 9:58:18 AM
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Fruz wrote:
And still by assuming that they must not store the values for each item and thinking that it's against standards relational schemes, you are showing that you most-likely don't understand their database management ( from what they say ).
No, what I said is that the statement "data is stored on the item" (and thus "cant be nerfed"), makes no sense. Ofc. they have to store data for each item, but that data is easily accessible.
In modern databases (last 20 years at least) every data is available for easy manipulation. That's the whole point - easy & fast manipulation, not only of data but how data is structured.
When night falls
She cloaks the world
In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo#1824 on Feb 13, 2014, 10:00:07 AM
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Posted bymorbo#1824on Feb 13, 2014, 9:58:20 AM
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Great job comparing GGG to monkeys .....
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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Posted byFruz#6137on Feb 13, 2014, 9:58:32 AM
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"
Fruz wrote:
"
morbo wrote:
"
Fruz wrote:
Stop making assessments like this, you don't know how they store their datas.
The whole world runs on relational databases. Because they are designed for extremely fast & convenient data manipulation.
It's a fair assumption that "technical difficulties" are bollocks.
And still by assuming that they must not store the values for each item and thinking that it's against standards relational schemes, you are showing that you most-likely don't understand their database management ( from what they say ).
"
Ezekeel wrote:
Either you man up and properly maintain the standard leagues or I personally will be done with this game once my char is dumped into the broken trash league.
snap !
They cannot content everyone anyway.
EDIT :
"
braheem wrote:
Did you just tell him to stop making assessments about their database design, and then proceed to make your own assessments about it?
Are you serious?
Show me where I made an assessment in my last post, I dare you to do so without looking ridiculous/stupid :].
Sure you cannot content everyone, but this forced progress wipe every 4 month is especially unattractive for casuals - adults with job and family - and they are the largest group of gamers as well as the consumer group which most likely will spend money in the cash shop. So for the continued success of the game - both in player numbers and financially - it would be wise not to alienate this group of gamers. The server bills have to be paid somehow and n+1 unemployed losers with 10 accounts and 1000 mules that spend zero cash in the game will not do that.
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Posted byEzekeel#4052on Feb 13, 2014, 10:00:53 AM
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Ezekeel wrote:
Sure you cannot content everyone, but this forced progress wipe every 4 month is especially unattractive for casuals - adults with job and family - and they are the largest group of gamers as well as the consumer group which most likely will spend money in the cash shop. So for the continued success of the game - both in player numbers and financially - it would be wise not to alienate this group of gamers. The server bills have to be paid somehow and n+1 unemployed losers with 10 accounts and 1000 mules that spend zero cash in the game will not do that.
And that's where you realize that GGG most-likely didn't intend PoE to be really played by very casual gamers, or at least not those aiming for the top end game.
I surely hope that GGG stick to their original design because that's what makes the game attractive for their initial aim ( which I hope, will stay the same ).
Supporters / hardcore gamers do spend money in the game, don't worry for that imho.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Feb 13, 2014, 10:03:33 AM
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Posted byFruz#6137on Feb 13, 2014, 10:03:24 AM
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