What builds are actually better off not starting from the Scion?

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Boem wrote:

Cool thread, invalesco having theory-craft funny's.

How about this suggestion inva?

Circle of life change = all nodes get reduced to 4%life and 6% armor.(big one to 8%life/10% armor)

Circle of evasion = all nodes get 4%life and reduced %evasion

Circle of ES = ES value's stay the same and they get +2%hp added to them.

Maybe you can come up with better numbers, but essentially it will make all the circles equal in terms of EHP? Would that not be a better solution? I mean everybody needs life while traveling the tree? This would make every circle equally appealing :)?

Interesting suggestion, but there would probably be balance issues especially with the ES circle. Also, it would render that circle undesirable for low-life builds wanting to run RF as well.

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Interesting suggestion, but there would probably be balance issues especially with the ES circle. Also, it would render that circle undesirable for low-life builds wanting to run RF as well.

Thats why i kept the %hp low, since ES already serves as life in most cases for EHP buffer.

And also undesirable does not mean one cannot work around it :). But i understand your point, just thought i would chip in an idea from another perspective.

Another legit concern would be the scion taking all his circles :D, that's why i reduced the life nodes pretty harshly and buffed the defense value's, to not promote this. On top of that it would require an immense point investment to achieve this, so other routes with less point investment might yield better HP% value's and better placement in the tree for further character development (at endgame, staying in that center will be harsh :D)

The thing would be that any crossover in the middle would yield similar EHP increase as a result, therefore one circle would not dominate over the others.(in fact they would all be very cool :D )

The only real issue i can foresee with this idea is that the routes on the edges of the tree from one class to another class should yield similar EHP value's, else every will opt to go true the middle at this stage.

<3 i love that big tree we got :D, i am sure you do two.


Edit : sorry if i derail your thread, since i did not offer a passive tree to you :E! But i agree with your stance, i made multiple min-max builds lately and every-time i end up making a scion with x% additional increase at the end.

Made up a Flameblast Templar as I went along and sorta sketched out the path I wanted around lvl 30 when I ran out of nodes in the starting area. For reference, I am also using LMP-Fireball, Fire Trap and Molten Shell for a pure fire approach. Going 1H shield for now and he's pretty tanky at level 73 with 3 charges, Molten Shell and Determination up.

This is the build at level 80. I am 73 right now.

Anywho, whenever I tried to make a Scion version, all it ended up being was basically the same thing but with the extra 4% AOE radius nodes at the Scion start. The only flexibility I see is maybe dropping some fire/ele damage nodes for spell damage on the way to Mana Flows or Path of the Savant. That and the early access to circle of life, but the Templar has enough life in his start that this point is irrelevant. I tried going up the other side of Scion but I am not convinced that is better.

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totentanz wrote:

Made up a Flameblast Templar as I went along and sorta sketched out the path I wanted around lvl 30 when I ran out of nodes in the starting area. For reference, I am also using LMP-Fireball, Fire Trap and Molten Shell for a pure fire approach. Going 1H shield for now and he's pretty tanky at level 73 with 3 charges, Molten Shell and Determination up.

This is the build at level 80. I am 73 right now.

Anywho, whenever I tried to make a Scion version, all it ended up being was basically the same thing but with the extra 4% AOE radius nodes at the Scion start. The only flexibility I see is maybe dropping some fire/ele damage nodes for spell damage on the way to Mana Flows or Path of the Savant. That and the early access to circle of life, but the Templar has enough life in his start that this point is irrelevant. I tried going up the other side of Scion but I am not convinced that is better.

Yeah yours isn't much different from a scion seeing as you've branched into the circle of life anyway.

This is a Dual Claw Acrobatics Block Ranger. I don't think this can be done better as a Scion.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/648651/page/1

Was thinking about dropping the trap nodes.

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Enkel wrote:

This is a Dual Claw Acrobatics Block Ranger. I don't think this can be done better as a Scion.

HP is not your priority, as can be seen by the 196% incr. life. Therefore yes, there is no reason to use a scion.

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FleepQc wrote:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/648651/page/1

Was thinking about dropping the trap nodes.

Your build is CI-based Bob, so there probably won't be much of a difference.

In addition, because you're Detonate Dead, you need elemental damage nodes, which is actually one thing the scion doesn't have. For that reason alone, you're probably better off being a templar.

I did however try and come up with a scion version of your build. There is a little bit more survivability as well as much more dps for your fire trap because of the incr. spell damage nodes taken. However, it takes an extra 3 points, and your DD damage is likely to suffer a little as well because of the decreased area damage.

Posting my post from reddit, I'd like to know if this can be done better as scion:


"I have a fire trap witch that I'd be interested in seeing if you can make a better tree in scion. Would like the same or more fire damage, and the same or more life.

EDIT: maintaining or gaining more life/mana regen is also important, and the area bonuses as well.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMBogAfAnkDtQQ8BacI_grbC20ZiBsXHIIe8B_tIOQiSRvYJC0fVys8LZwtgzi3Puw48kWPRho4FE0pTxVQUlPAVJBVpld-WQVb7FU9X6xZ2mIHY4dlEmnjaudjr2xabRZvAnHhc2h0z2Xub3F573wabOaBp4QZhUGHMYjFiouMKo3-jzWSl5WXhYKbLJwxnpSgm6Gio4-mJ6kkqu-FVa7fsASzna6vt2e9jr7GrpLBNsV_xlXG0NBG1zbY2t2f3zrhTeP56DbpXcaI8cHzl_QI9Ez_"

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Z3roSh0t wrote:

Posting my post from reddit, I'd like to know if this can be done better as scion:


"I have a fire trap witch that I'd be interested in seeing if you can make a better tree in scion. Would like the same or more fire damage, and the same or more life.

EDIT: maintaining or gaining more life/mana regen is also important, and the area bonuses as well.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMBogAfAnkDtQQ8BacI_grbC20ZiBsXHIIe8B_tIOQiSRvYJC0fVys8LZwtgzi3Puw48kWPRho4FE0pTxVQUlPAVJBVpld-WQVb7FU9X6xZ2mIHY4dlEmnjaudjr2xabRZvAnHhc2h0z2Xub3F573wabOaBp4QZhUGHMYjFiouMKo3-jzWSl5WXhYKbLJwxnpSgm6Gio4-mJ6kkqu-FVa7fsASzna6vt2e9jr7GrpLBNsV_xlXG0NBG1zbY2t2f3zrhTeP56DbpXcaI8cHzl_QI9Ez_

There were a few points in your statement that immediately led me to believe that scion would be a better choice.

1. Would like the same or more fire damage, and the same or more life.
2. maintaining or gaining more life/mana regen is also important

Because it's a life-based build and your priorities are life/mana regen, scion is automatically a better choice.

Here's your scion version:


Everything's the same except for 20% more mana and 18% more life.

It is very easy to argue that Scion beats all classes as soon as you touch (or almost touch) the starting area of the Scion.

For builds, picking only nodes at the "outer areas" (like e.g. the already mentioned CoC builds) or even heavily evasion based builds, Rangers or Shadows beat Scions.

Only class which is almost completely "useless" for endgame is Witch because the starting area offers nothing special. Strong ES can be found in Templar or Shadow area and dmg scaling is not that important because there are lots of nodes around to be grabbed.

The big plus for Witch was "Wander" especially the phys one but since lategame you will need Vaal Pact for sure, you have to choose Scion even for this particular builds.

But to contribute to the original idea of this thread. Here is my Ranger/Shadow tree of which i'm pretty sure that it cannot be rebuild as Scion with similar (or even better) stats.