ggg needs to take steps to make spells more approachable

"

Aelloon wrote:

"

OrtForShort wrote:

"

NagiSoi wrote:

Spells need few more auras/more spells and maybe a new element?

Uh, no, they just need to be made less sucky. Spell uses shouldn't be pigeonholed into using a particular aura.

You mean like all attack based builds?

"

shroudb wrote:

melee doesn't have a penetration gem true.
but spell casters dont have 3(4)! MORE multipliers for their damage

more physical damage
more physical damage on full life
more attack speed (multistrike)
more elemental damage (weapon elemental)

at any given moment any single melee skill can benefit from AT LEAST 2 of those gems. The closest the casters have is penetration gem, which in a way works as a MOREmultiplier but is only 1. AND they have to wrok against 75% + resist mobs.

At least HALF of the mobs need to be ARMORED and the rest split between the 5 resists to be even fairly balanced, atm there are only 1-2 subtypes that are armored (only crabs come to mind) And golems don't have a lot of armor, just a shitton of HP, taking golems down as a lighting caster is much bigger pain than taking them down as a melee (all golems have resist lightning on top of a ton of hp, their armor is as a standard mob)

1. Righteous Fire
2. Pain Attunement
3. Taryn's Shiver (the frozen modifier acts as a more multiplier with your normal damage)
4. Trap
5. Mine
(6. Conc Effect)

Why did I list all these? Because you decided to include multistrike AND melee physical damage on full life. Normal builds use:
more physical damage
Then quite often: more attack speed
and sometimes: more elemental damage

By the way: the "more elemental damage" suffers from the same resist issues as what you said.

Also, a large chunk of damage those melee builds have is from: added fire damage (pure fire damage) and hatred (pure cold damage).

Do you even play the game? Seems like a lot of you guys whining about the game don't even know what you have available for casters.

out of your examples:
trap/mine is not for selfcast (and if you even bothered to read the thread the main issue is selfcasts)

concentrated effect is also available for attacks, not spell specific.

i can also list unique items that offer more multipliers for melee (p.e. abyssus), so you mention taryn's sliver is against you

pain attunement is for low life builds.and RF is situational and works after lvl 70 while most of the complains is for early levels.

added fire damage and hatred are 2 MORE modifiers that only melee (and EK) builds can use, that's also noted thank you i have forgotten about those.

to answer your questions if we even play the game with a question:

Do you even know how to read?

edit:

about your actual "more" multipliers i've said before:

make RF scale in early game:

make it like BR: 4% max life damage /sec 30% More damage, and cscale the damage received with gem level to reach the 90%life/70%ES at lvl 20gem. currently it is a niche build that is only really usable at lvls 70+ and ONLY with very specific items and build.

yes, all the caster will be able to use it then, yes all the casters need at least 30%more damage so np here.

"

fxyo wrote:

GGG?

bump

"

shroudb wrote:

one of the many issues spell casters have is that reists work always (as opposed to armor that works.. never)

so in merciless+maps+etc when every single mob has very high resist elemental damage, their dps is cut to at least half most of the times.

curses are mandatory to bypass this, but curse-immune and etc shennanigans make it mandatory to also run penetration gems.

so, your curse is FORCED to be an offensive one and you also lose 1 gem slot. This is just to even out the resists vs armor anomally.

a solution would be to scale down monster resistances, bu a LOT. Like "resists elemental damage" on merciless on a white mob needs to be close to 15-20% resistances, while individual "resists x" can be as high as 50%. That still allows rares to have 70-75% resistance if they are of the subtype and have the resistance mode. OR elemental resist curses need to be buffed to be close to 75% resuced resistance at lvl 20.

then comes the fact that since spell damage is heavily dependent on gem level, you have to wait to ridicusly high level to actually use your spell to 100% effectivness (high mid 80s for lvl 20 gem) while attack users again have no problem finding/buying a great weapon at something like lvl 70 and have 100% of their dps output from then on.

finally, the supports themselves are kinda worse in a lot of cases. Take 2 generic MORE multipliers in the game: more physical damage: drawback=none. More aoe damage: drawback much reduced range. Why?

Spells, at the moment are relegated to being used as a support/secondary casts (CoC, CoS, CwDt etc) are all far better ways to actually casts the spells, rather than... casting them!

Final nail in the coffin is the actual casting stat, int and mana gain and mana costs.

Stats are suppossed to give bonuses, p.e. str gives health and damage, more health=more survivability, more damage is well more damage.

int gives mana and es. Es is survivability, good so far. Mana on the other hand isn't even a bonus for spellcasters since their mana costs are close to 1000% on some cases compared to attacks. I get it that attack users often don't have a lot of mana so their attacks need to be cheap(er) but on the other hand, boosting your main stat only so you can actually use your skills (as opposed to get a benefit from it) is ridiculous.

Mana costs for spells need to be reduced to attack levels, and then casters can enjoy the benefit of having a ton of mana/mana regen to use other things with, like more auras, arctic armor, MoM, etc.

And MoM needs to be moved to witch area.

the are my 2(more like 50) cents.

Or you could just use a penetration gem attached to your spell, and then monsters' resists are capped at 40ish-59 resist.

also spells make great use of elemental equilibrium. Mixed with a curse you are looking at reducing resists by over 100. (not sure if elemental weakness + specific elemental curse stack, but that would be close to 200 resist reduction when mixed with EE).

Now just watch out for reflect. I suggest running purity of 'whatever elemental type you are casting', possibly also picking up the +2 max resist passive, and using a flask of your type.

"

LostForm wrote:

"

shroudb wrote:

one of the many issues spell casters have is that reists work always (as opposed to armor that works.. never)

so in merciless+maps+etc when every single mob has very high resist elemental damage, their dps is cut to at least half most of the times.

curses are mandatory to bypass this, but curse-immune and etc shennanigans make it mandatory to also run penetration gems.

so, your curse is FORCED to be an offensive one and you also lose 1 gem slot. This is just to even out the resists vs armor anomally.

a solution would be to scale down monster resistances, bu a LOT. Like "resists elemental damage" on merciless on a white mob needs to be close to 15-20% resistances, while individual "resists x" can be as high as 50%. That still allows rares to have 70-75% resistance if they are of the subtype and have the resistance mode. OR elemental resist curses need to be buffed to be close to 75% resuced resistance at lvl 20.

then comes the fact that since spell damage is heavily dependent on gem level, you have to wait to ridicusly high level to actually use your spell to 100% effectivness (high mid 80s for lvl 20 gem) while attack users again have no problem finding/buying a great weapon at something like lvl 70 and have 100% of their dps output from then on.

finally, the supports themselves are kinda worse in a lot of cases. Take 2 generic MORE multipliers in the game: more physical damage: drawback=none. More aoe damage: drawback much reduced range. Why?

Spells, at the moment are relegated to being used as a support/secondary casts (CoC, CoS, CwDt etc) are all far better ways to actually casts the spells, rather than... casting them!

Final nail in the coffin is the actual casting stat, int and mana gain and mana costs.

Stats are suppossed to give bonuses, p.e. str gives health and damage, more health=more survivability, more damage is well more damage.

int gives mana and es. Es is survivability, good so far. Mana on the other hand isn't even a bonus for spellcasters since their mana costs are close to 1000% on some cases compared to attacks. I get it that attack users often don't have a lot of mana so their attacks need to be cheap(er) but on the other hand, boosting your main stat only so you can actually use your skills (as opposed to get a benefit from it) is ridiculous.

Mana costs for spells need to be reduced to attack levels, and then casters can enjoy the benefit of having a ton of mana/mana regen to use other things with, like more auras, arctic armor, MoM, etc.

And MoM needs to be moved to witch area.

the are my 2(more like 50) cents.

Or you could just use a penetration gem attached to your spell, and then monsters' resists are capped at 40ish-59 resist.

also spells make great use of elemental equilibrium. Mixed with a curse you are looking at reducing resists by over 100. (not sure if elemental weakness + specific elemental curse stack, but that would be close to 200 resist reduction when mixed with EE).

Now just watch out for reflect. I suggest running purity of 'whatever elemental type you are casting', possibly also picking up the +2 max resist passive, and using a flask of your type.

most unique bosses have overcapped resistances.
all unique bosses also have 30% effect from curses, and all rare bosses 50%.

now, with a single curse you reduce their resist by...14% at lvl 20 curse mind you. usually not enough to even reach the cap (75%) so in effect the curse does nothing at all.

only penetration applies then.

and so you deal 40% of your dps... great success when melee with vulnerability curse p.e. do 110% on unique bosses, almost double. And since you have lower base dps the differance is even more apparent.

EE is good and all, but it is an unneccesary hassle. having to self cast 2 different spells alternate basically means 50% less dps (for 2 equal cast time spells). Having a flame totem to proc it means no other totem AND flame totem really sucks at staying alive so you have to recast it all the time.

EE is good. but it is for specific uses (p.e. EA where you put another element in your weapon, dyadus, CoC, etc) for a pure caster it is not that great)

and ALL the above are not spell specific, indeed as i pointed out, they benefit mostly weapon elemental users and not pure casters.

"

shroudb wrote:

"

LostForm wrote:

"

shroudb wrote:

one of the many issues spell casters have is that reists work always (as opposed to armor that works.. never)

so in merciless+maps+etc when every single mob has very high resist elemental damage, their dps is cut to at least half most of the times.

curses are mandatory to bypass this, but curse-immune and etc shennanigans make it mandatory to also run penetration gems.

so, your curse is FORCED to be an offensive one and you also lose 1 gem slot. This is just to even out the resists vs armor anomally.

a solution would be to scale down monster resistances, bu a LOT. Like "resists elemental damage" on merciless on a white mob needs to be close to 15-20% resistances, while individual "resists x" can be as high as 50%. That still allows rares to have 70-75% resistance if they are of the subtype and have the resistance mode. OR elemental resist curses need to be buffed to be close to 75% resuced resistance at lvl 20.

then comes the fact that since spell damage is heavily dependent on gem level, you have to wait to ridicusly high level to actually use your spell to 100% effectivness (high mid 80s for lvl 20 gem) while attack users again have no problem finding/buying a great weapon at something like lvl 70 and have 100% of their dps output from then on.

finally, the supports themselves are kinda worse in a lot of cases. Take 2 generic MORE multipliers in the game: more physical damage: drawback=none. More aoe damage: drawback much reduced range. Why?

Spells, at the moment are relegated to being used as a support/secondary casts (CoC, CoS, CwDt etc) are all far better ways to actually casts the spells, rather than... casting them!

Final nail in the coffin is the actual casting stat, int and mana gain and mana costs.

Stats are suppossed to give bonuses, p.e. str gives health and damage, more health=more survivability, more damage is well more damage.

int gives mana and es. Es is survivability, good so far. Mana on the other hand isn't even a bonus for spellcasters since their mana costs are close to 1000% on some cases compared to attacks. I get it that attack users often don't have a lot of mana so their attacks need to be cheap(er) but on the other hand, boosting your main stat only so you can actually use your skills (as opposed to get a benefit from it) is ridiculous.

Mana costs for spells need to be reduced to attack levels, and then casters can enjoy the benefit of having a ton of mana/mana regen to use other things with, like more auras, arctic armor, MoM, etc.

And MoM needs to be moved to witch area.

the are my 2(more like 50) cents.

Or you could just use a penetration gem attached to your spell, and then monsters' resists are capped at 40ish-59 resist.

also spells make great use of elemental equilibrium. Mixed with a curse you are looking at reducing resists by over 100. (not sure if elemental weakness + specific elemental curse stack, but that would be close to 200 resist reduction when mixed with EE).

Now just watch out for reflect. I suggest running purity of 'whatever elemental type you are casting', possibly also picking up the +2 max resist passive, and using a flask of your type.

most unique bosses have overcapped resistances.
all unique bosses also have 30% effect from curses, and all rare bosses 50%.

now, with a single curse you reduce their resist by...14% at lvl 20 curse mind you. usually not enough to even reach the cap (75%) so in effect the curse does nothing at all.

only penetration applies then.

and so you deal 40% of your dps... great success when melee with vulnerability curse p.e. do 110% on unique bosses, almost double. And since you have lower base dps the differance is even more apparent.

EE is good and all, but it is an unneccesary hassle. having to self cast 2 different spells alternate basically means 50% less dps (for 2 equal cast time spells). Having a flame totem to proc it means no other totem AND flame totem really sucks at staying alive so you have to recast it all the time.

EE is good. but it is for specific uses (p.e. EA where you put another element in your weapon, dyadus, CoC, etc) for a pure caster it is not that great)

and ALL the above are not spell specific, indeed as i pointed out, they benefit mostly weapon elemental users and not pure casters.

They are not spell specific, just much easier to use with specific spells. You can get two one handed weapons with different elemental effects and then allow your skills to switch between the weapons, but that puts a big onus to upgrading your gear.

EE isnt a curse, monsters cant be immune to it, bosses dont get reduced effects from it, though they can be so far over cap it doesnt dent them by itself, but will suddenly make your pualtry feeling resistance curse much better.

EE is not that hard to use, and casting two different spells does not mean 50% dps potential by default, especially if you focus on +spell damage rather than +specific elemental damage.

Projectile spells also all shotgun (except EK? not sure on EK), meaning a LMP or GMP becomes a 'more' modifier to damage per cast even with the 'less' modifier per projectile. That is something that only spectral throw benefits from.

Spells allow more choice for distance of engagement imo. You can choose spells that work great while in the face of monsters (FP, EK, spork, multi-fireballs), you can choose spells that work great at range (ice spear, spork, fireballs). You can choose spells that skip the front line of enemies and hit a specific enemy (storm call, cold snap, firestorm).

Spells are much safer for crit builds because you can have much more reliable defense against that damage type being reflected than physical damage. Spells also apply status effects when they crit, double dipping in why they make better crit builds. Good luck making a 'CC' build like cold snap + power charge generation + elemental prolif + high crit using attack skills. I think someone probably could, it just isnt as easy. Or a build designed to set the whole screen on fire like quality fireball + lmp/gmp + fork or ele prolif + fire pen + increase burn damage, while running flammability curse

Spells have always been the strongest way to build a character, hands down, before launch, so if they dont appear off hand to be the absolute strongest playstyle, while still being quite effective for the informed, I salute GGG for their pre-release balancing act.

(I have made several EE casters, and it is a very viable way to play caster).

"

ciel289 wrote:

trap and mine support gems work with attacks as well (on top of that they cant leech even with leech gems!)
trap and mines change the gamplay (you dont really feel like a "caster" anymore)
its funny,but not what most ppl look for when they want to use spells

many melee builds use atleast 2 of the 4 more dmg gems (multistrike+x)
if they dont,they have good reasons for it (but they still would work with those gems)

pain attunment is even less usefull than bloodmagic keystone for most builds

Taryns´s shiver .... for real? it only works with cold spells and crit/freeze on hit on top of that its an endgame unique and not "easy" to get (ok than i say every melee has a 7link unlike caster on top of free leech Marohi Erqi and/or Bringer of Rain )
seems as usefull/valid as your pain attunment to me (wont work for atleast 95% of the caster builds)

conc effect works for some!!(not all!) spells ya ( so does it for some attacks) and compared to the other more dmg gems for melees/attacks (Melee physical/WED) but has a big drawback (30%less aoe radius which is huge,i means 51%less area of effect)

i exclude multistrike here since multistrike atleast trys to have a drawback (less dmg per hit) it still scales a bit to good compared to conc effect imo


e*: of forgot your awesome righerous fire idea .... the worst one you mentioned
the whole build has to be build around this one buff to even make it work (grab as much lifereg/max fireresi as you can etc) it adds a bit more dmg than WED/melee physical and you dont need a linked socket for it,but the sacrifices you have to make for it (passivs choices and beeing limited to max fire aura+gear) are ridiculous

Trap and Mine gems only work with RANGED attacks (bows).

Yes, MANY melee builds use them: you can use yours too. You complain about not enough damage being available on the tree: use those points to make RF usable for you or use those points to make pain attunement usable for you. Do you? No. You take the gigantic amount of tankiness you're handed and then complain that you don't deal enough AoE damage compared to the amount of singletarget damage MELEE targets do.

Also, did you know that elemental damage doesn't benefit from leech from gear? Who would've thought, right?! But you keep saying melee this and melee that. Elemental melee can't leech for shit so you mentioning hatred, added fire and weapon ele dmg seems like you have no fucking clue what you're arguing about.

Also when you're comparing multistrike to spells then you look at LMP.
Multistrike: 100% more attackspeed and attacks 3 times. So instead of it taking one second to attack once it takes you 1.5 seconds to attack 3 times. 60% damage effectiveness.
LMP: 2 more projectiles and attacks once. So instead of it taking one second to shoot out one projectile it now takes 1 second to shoot out 3 projectiles. 70% damage effectiveness.

You guys keep harping on about not having enough damage from the tree. Then when I suggest that you use your lots of *free* points that you're not using (since you don't have to use them on the tree, right?!) to making a build with RF it's boohoo time?

I do agree that spells need love but it's with there not being many spells which aren't sucky endgame. None of this "boohoo, melee didn't need a buff. He's doing 20k dps singletarget - i can only do 6k AoE. Melee OP pls nurf".

How can people like Mors manage to have 7k+ life without a Kaom's Heart while having 8k AoE dps with Freezing Pulse somehow be "Selfcasting any spell is terrible."? If you'd look at the ladder on Nemesis there are lots of archers, melee and spellcasters.

If you're not willing to use mines or traps then why are you complaining? It's not like melee characters have this huge array of possible abilities to use to pick from either. It's incredibly limited.

PS there's this cool thing called elemental proliferation. I heard freeze mine with it is pretty balanced.

"

shroudb wrote:

out of your examples:
trap/mine is not for selfcast (and if you even bothered to read the thread the main issue is selfcasts)

concentrated effect is also available for attacks, not spell specific.

i can also list unique items that offer more multipliers for melee (p.e. abyssus), so you mention taryn's sliver is against you

pain attunement is for low life builds.and RF is situational and works after lvl 70 while most of the complains is for early levels.

added fire damage and hatred are 2 MORE modifiers that only melee (and EK) builds can use, that's also noted thank you i have forgotten about those.

to answer your questions if we even play the game with a question:

Do you even know how to read?

But trap and mine are pretty much selfcasts. You cast the traps and mines yourself and use them.

Abyssus does not give more damage at all. It gives increased damage taken to YOU. Taryn's Shiver gives increased damage taken to enemies who are frozen. This acts as a multiplier.

Please list the amount of AoE attacks that can take advantage of Concentrated Effect and then list the spells and we'll see how well it can take advantage of. Not to mention that you mentioned quite a few "more" multipliers that are already taking up gemspots. Will they have room?

Did you know that Added Fire and Hatred are both elemental damage and thus you cannot leech from their damage without equipping a gem to the attack. AND that they both suffer from elemental resistant mobs just like spells?

You complain about not having enough damage on the tree etc: then use those points to make that specific RF/pain attunement build. That would be some use for all those gigantic amounts of points you're not using on damage, right?

Also, this thread seems more like a whinefest "because X has Y thing better" - you complain about life leech possibilities from gear when it suits you (only works for physical attacks). Then you complain about too much damage on them (when half the examples you bring up are more elemental damage). Then you complain about not dealing enough damage (while you're using AoE damage numbers and they're using single target numbers) etc. Get your shit in order and we can talk, because, yes, spellcasters do need some more options, but not in the way you're talking. You're just talking nonsense.

"

Aelloon wrote:

"

ciel289 wrote:

trap and mine support gems work with attacks as well (on top of that they cant leech even with leech gems!)
trap and mines change the gamplay (you dont really feel like a "caster" anymore)
its funny,but not what most ppl look for when they want to use spells

many melee builds use atleast 2 of the 4 more dmg gems (multistrike+x)
if they dont,they have good reasons for it (but they still would work with those gems)

pain attunment is even less usefull than bloodmagic keystone for most builds

Taryns´s shiver .... for real? it only works with cold spells and crit/freeze on hit on top of that its an endgame unique and not "easy" to get (ok than i say every melee has a 7link unlike caster on top of free leech Marohi Erqi and/or Bringer of Rain )
seems as usefull/valid as your pain attunment to me (wont work for atleast 95% of the caster builds)

conc effect works for some!!(not all!) spells ya ( so does it for some attacks) and compared to the other more dmg gems for melees/attacks (Melee physical/WED) but has a big drawback (30%less aoe radius which is huge,i means 51%less area of effect)

i exclude multistrike here since multistrike atleast trys to have a drawback (less dmg per hit) it still scales a bit to good compared to conc effect imo


e*: of forgot your awesome righerous fire idea .... the worst one you mentioned
the whole build has to be build around this one buff to even make it work (grab as much lifereg/max fireresi as you can etc) it adds a bit more dmg than WED/melee physical and you dont need a linked socket for it,but the sacrifices you have to make for it (passivs choices and beeing limited to max fire aura+gear) are ridiculous

Trap and Mine gems only work with RANGED attacks (bows).

Yes, MANY melee builds use them: you can use yours too. You complain about not enough damage being available on the tree: use those points to make RF usable for you or use those points to make pain attunement usable for you. Do you? No. You take the gigantic amount of tankiness you're handed and then complain that you don't deal enough AoE damage compared to the amount of singletarget damage MELEE targets do.

Also, did you know that elemental damage doesn't benefit from leech from gear? Who would've thought, right?! But you keep saying melee this and melee that. Elemental melee can't leech for shit so you mentioning hatred, added fire and weapon ele dmg seems like you have no fucking clue what you're arguing about.

Also when you're comparing multistrike to spells then you look at LMP.
Multistrike: 100% more attackspeed and attacks 3 times. So instead of it taking one second to attack once it takes you 1.5 seconds to attack 3 times. 60% damage effectiveness.
LMP: 2 more projectiles and attacks once. So instead of it taking one second to shoot out one projectile it now takes 1 second to shoot out 3 projectiles. 70% damage effectiveness.

You guys keep harping on about not having enough damage from the tree. Then when I suggest that you use your lots of *free* points that you're not using (since you don't have to use them on the tree, right?!) to making a build with RF it's boohoo time?

I do agree that spells need love but it's with there not being many spells which aren't sucky endgame. None of this "boohoo, melee didn't need a buff. He's doing 20k dps singletarget - i can only do 6k AoE. Melee OP pls nurf".

How can people like Mors manage to have 7k+ life without a Kaom's Heart while having 8k AoE dps with Freezing Pulse somehow be "Selfcasting any spell is terrible."? If you'd look at the ladder on Nemesis there are lots of archers, melee and spellcasters.

If you're not willing to use mines or traps then why are you complaining? It's not like melee characters have this huge array of possible abilities to use to pick from either. It's incredibly limited.

PS there's this cool thing called elemental proliferation. I heard freeze mine with it is pretty balanced.

most people here haven't asked for a melee nerf.

if anything they show melee as the ball park and asked to be raised to their level, not melee to go down to caster level.

the ladder at nemesis has it's first witch at ~85 position. That is pathetic.

most (not all ofc) casters are totem casters.

and 8k aoe dps is sucky when you compare it to easily attainable 20k dps (i'm not going to bring in abyssus builds since those break the limiters by a lot)

Freeze mine with proliferation is great yeah... for a DEX skill that is available to all.

What we are asking is a nerf to monster resistances OR a passive way to penetrate damage because resistances are what are breaking casters atm.

it doesn't matter if you have 8k freezing pulse when it really does at best 3k against unique bosses and the melee has 15-20k dps and against bosses he does 25k.


And yeah the second problem is GEAR. There isn't a single subtype that is able to roll only caster prefixes/affixes. that makes finding a good wand/sceptre way, way harder.
A big problem with spells and scaling is that there are not +flat damage increases.

you keep comparing us to weapon elemental users, but a single elemental weapon has the equivalent of 3 damage supports for a spell (p.e. added lightning lvl 20 adds 5-105 lighning damage, a top tier lighning prefix adds much more than a support...) so in effect, a 6L elemental attack is equivalent to a 9! linked spell...

"

shroudb wrote:

"

Aelloon wrote:

"

ciel289 wrote:

trap and mine support gems work with attacks as well (on top of that they cant leech even with leech gems!)
trap and mines change the gamplay (you dont really feel like a "caster" anymore)
its funny,but not what most ppl look for when they want to use spells

many melee builds use atleast 2 of the 4 more dmg gems (multistrike+x)
if they dont,they have good reasons for it (but they still would work with those gems)

pain attunment is even less usefull than bloodmagic keystone for most builds

Taryns´s shiver .... for real? it only works with cold spells and crit/freeze on hit on top of that its an endgame unique and not "easy" to get (ok than i say every melee has a 7link unlike caster on top of free leech Marohi Erqi and/or Bringer of Rain )
seems as usefull/valid as your pain attunment to me (wont work for atleast 95% of the caster builds)

conc effect works for some!!(not all!) spells ya ( so does it for some attacks) and compared to the other more dmg gems for melees/attacks (Melee physical/WED) but has a big drawback (30%less aoe radius which is huge,i means 51%less area of effect)

i exclude multistrike here since multistrike atleast trys to have a drawback (less dmg per hit) it still scales a bit to good compared to conc effect imo


e*: of forgot your awesome righerous fire idea .... the worst one you mentioned
the whole build has to be build around this one buff to even make it work (grab as much lifereg/max fireresi as you can etc) it adds a bit more dmg than WED/melee physical and you dont need a linked socket for it,but the sacrifices you have to make for it (passivs choices and beeing limited to max fire aura+gear) are ridiculous

Trap and Mine gems only work with RANGED attacks (bows).

Yes, MANY melee builds use them: you can use yours too. You complain about not enough damage being available on the tree: use those points to make RF usable for you or use those points to make pain attunement usable for you. Do you? No. You take the gigantic amount of tankiness you're handed and then complain that you don't deal enough AoE damage compared to the amount of singletarget damage MELEE targets do.

Also, did you know that elemental damage doesn't benefit from leech from gear? Who would've thought, right?! But you keep saying melee this and melee that. Elemental melee can't leech for shit so you mentioning hatred, added fire and weapon ele dmg seems like you have no fucking clue what you're arguing about.

Also when you're comparing multistrike to spells then you look at LMP.
Multistrike: 100% more attackspeed and attacks 3 times. So instead of it taking one second to attack once it takes you 1.5 seconds to attack 3 times. 60% damage effectiveness.
LMP: 2 more projectiles and attacks once. So instead of it taking one second to shoot out one projectile it now takes 1 second to shoot out 3 projectiles. 70% damage effectiveness.

You guys keep harping on about not having enough damage from the tree. Then when I suggest that you use your lots of *free* points that you're not using (since you don't have to use them on the tree, right?!) to making a build with RF it's boohoo time?

I do agree that spells need love but it's with there not being many spells which aren't sucky endgame. None of this "boohoo, melee didn't need a buff. He's doing 20k dps singletarget - i can only do 6k AoE. Melee OP pls nurf".

How can people like Mors manage to have 7k+ life without a Kaom's Heart while having 8k AoE dps with Freezing Pulse somehow be "Selfcasting any spell is terrible."? If you'd look at the ladder on Nemesis there are lots of archers, melee and spellcasters.

If you're not willing to use mines or traps then why are you complaining? It's not like melee characters have this huge array of possible abilities to use to pick from either. It's incredibly limited.

PS there's this cool thing called elemental proliferation. I heard freeze mine with it is pretty balanced.

most people here haven't asked for a melee nerf.

if anything they show melee as the ball park and asked to be raised to their level, not melee to go down to caster level.

the ladder at nemesis has it's first witch at ~85 position. That is pathetic.

most (not all ofc) casters are totem casters.

and 8k aoe dps is sucky when you compare it to easily attainable 20k dps (i'm not going to bring in abyssus builds since those break the limiters by a lot)

Freeze mine with proliferation is great yeah... for a DEX skill that is available to all.

What we are asking is a nerf to monster resistances OR a passive way to penetrate damage because resistances are what are breaking casters atm.

it doesn't matter if you have 8k freezing pulse when it really does at best 3k against unique bosses and the melee has 15-20k dps and against bosses he does 25k.


And yeah the second problem is GEAR. There isn't a single subtype that is able to roll only caster prefixes/affixes. that makes finding a good wand/sceptre way, way harder.
A big problem with spells and scaling is that there are not +flat damage increases.

you keep comparing us to weapon elemental users, but a single elemental weapon has the equivalent of 3 damage supports for a spell (p.e. added lightning lvl 20 adds 5-105 lighning damage, a top tier lighning prefix adds much more than a support...) so in effect, a 6L elemental attack is equivalent to a 9! linked spell...

Before launch many of the actual dps gains for spells will not be listed by the tool tip dps calculation.

To name a few unless they changed it: LMP/GMP, conc effect on many skills, increased damage to frozen type modifiers, burn damage.

Basically a fireball listed at 4k dps might in actuality be doing closer to 10k dps, but it wont show up for a screen shot for epeen, but will show up in a video clip of you one shotting a map boss and watching it burn to death 2 seconds later.

First they have to change shock stacking. Lightning spells will always have to suck aslong as shock is so OP.

They need to remove shotgunning. It makes it nigh impossible to balance the spells and makes certain support gems mandatory.


And if there is ever going to be balance they MUST remove stacking of both crit multiplier and crit chance. It's so ridiculous to let players stack both those modifiers so easily. I have no clue why are doing this. It's even worse: they had to put in reflect mobs to counter it.