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Spells need few more auras/more spells and maybe a new element?
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Posted byNagiSoi#1418on Dec 5, 2013, 8:34:02 PM
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NagiSoi wrote:
Spells need few more auras/more spells and maybe a new element?
Uh, no, they just need to be made less sucky. Spell uses shouldn't be pigeonholed into using a particular aura.
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Posted byOrtForShort#6693on Dec 5, 2013, 10:05:57 PM
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OrtForShort wrote:
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NagiSoi wrote:
Spells need few more auras/more spells and maybe a new element?
Uh, no, they just need to be made less sucky. Spell uses shouldn't be pigeonholed into using a particular aura.
You mean like all attack based builds?
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shroudb wrote:
melee doesn't have a penetration gem true.
but spell casters dont have 3(4)! MORE multipliers for their damage
more physical damage
more physical damage on full life
more attack speed (multistrike)
more elemental damage (weapon elemental)
at any given moment any single melee skill can benefit from AT LEAST 2 of those gems. The closest the casters have is penetration gem, which in a way works as a MOREmultiplier but is only 1. AND they have to wrok against 75% + resist mobs.
At least HALF of the mobs need to be ARMORED and the rest split between the 5 resists to be even fairly balanced, atm there are only 1-2 subtypes that are armored (only crabs come to mind) And golems don't have a lot of armor, just a shitton of HP, taking golems down as a lighting caster is much bigger pain than taking them down as a melee (all golems have resist lightning on top of a ton of hp, their armor is as a standard mob)
1. Righteous Fire
2. Pain Attunement
3. Taryn's Shiver (the frozen modifier acts as a more multiplier with your normal damage)
4. Trap
5. Mine
(6. Conc Effect)
Why did I list all these? Because you decided to include multistrike AND melee physical damage on full life. Normal builds use:
more physical damage
Then quite often: more attack speed
and sometimes: more elemental damage
By the way: the "more elemental damage" suffers from the same resist issues as what you said.
Also, a large chunk of damage those melee builds have is from: added fire damage (pure fire damage) and hatred (pure cold damage).
Do you even play the game? Seems like a lot of you guys whining about the game don't even know what you have available for casters.
@Aelloon Last edited by Aelloon#5522 on Dec 5, 2013, 10:38:12 PM
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Posted byAelloon#5522on Dec 5, 2013, 10:34:50 PM
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spells just need a way to leech life without using a gem
renting this space - 1 gcp/month
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Posted byC2487233#3346on Dec 5, 2013, 11:04:27 PM
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My main complaint right now is that one of the strongest caster nodes, Pain Attunement, is unusable in end game without Shavs, which is prohibitively expensive for most players. It just seems dumb, and I feel like more options should be out there for low life builds, which are among the few builds that can compete with the DPS offered by current melee builds.
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Posted byFun_Hat#6742on Dec 5, 2013, 11:05:19 PM
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GGG?
IGN: Edgar_Ffs
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Posted byfxyo#5768on Dec 5, 2013, 11:37:07 PM
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Aelloon wrote:
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OrtForShort wrote:
"
NagiSoi wrote:
Spells need few more auras/more spells and maybe a new element?
Uh, no, they just need to be made less sucky. Spell uses shouldn't be pigeonholed into using a particular aura.
You mean like all attack based builds?
"
shroudb wrote:
melee doesn't have a penetration gem true.
but spell casters dont have 3(4)! MORE multipliers for their damage
more physical damage
more physical damage on full life
more attack speed (multistrike)
more elemental damage (weapon elemental)
at any given moment any single melee skill can benefit from AT LEAST 2 of those gems. The closest the casters have is penetration gem, which in a way works as a MOREmultiplier but is only 1. AND they have to wrok against 75% + resist mobs.
At least HALF of the mobs need to be ARMORED and the rest split between the 5 resists to be even fairly balanced, atm there are only 1-2 subtypes that are armored (only crabs come to mind) And golems don't have a lot of armor, just a shitton of HP, taking golems down as a lighting caster is much bigger pain than taking them down as a melee (all golems have resist lightning on top of a ton of hp, their armor is as a standard mob)
1. Righteous Fire
2. Pain Attunement
3. Taryn's Shiver (the frozen modifier acts as a more multiplier with your normal damage)
4. Trap
5. Mine
(6. Conc Effect)
Why did I list all these? Because you decided to include multistrike AND melee physical damage on full life. Normal builds use:
more physical damage
Then quite often: more attack speed
and sometimes: more elemental damage
By the way: the "more elemental damage" suffers from the same resist issues as what you said.
Also, a large chunk of damage those melee builds have is from: added fire damage (pure fire damage) and hatred (pure cold damage).
Do you even play the game? Seems like a lot of you guys whining about the game don't even know what you have available for casters.
trap and mine support gems work with attacks as well (on top of that they cant leech even with leech gems!)
trap and mines change the gamplay (you dont really feel like a "caster" anymore)
its funny,but not what most ppl look for when they want to use spells
many melee builds use atleast 2 of the 4 more dmg gems (multistrike+x)
if they dont,they have good reasons for it (but they still would work with those gems)
pain attunment is even less usefull than bloodmagic keystone for most builds
Taryns´s shiver .... for real? it only works with cold spells and crit/freeze on hit on top of that its an endgame unique and not "easy" to get (ok than i say every melee has a 7link unlike caster on top of free leech Marohi Erqi and/or Bringer of Rain )
seems as usefull/valid as your pain attunment to me (wont work for atleast 95% of the caster builds)
conc effect works for some!!(not all!) spells ya ( so does it for some attacks) and compared to the other more dmg gems for melees/attacks (Melee physical/WED) but has a big drawback (30%less aoe radius which is huge,i means 51%less area of effect)
i exclude multistrike here since multistrike atleast trys to have a drawback (less dmg per hit) it still scales a bit to good compared to conc effect imo
e*: of forgot your awesome righerous fire idea .... the worst one you mentioned
the whole build has to be build around this one buff to even make it work (grab as much lifereg/max fireresi as you can etc) it adds a bit more dmg than WED/melee physical and you dont need a linked socket for it,but the sacrifices you have to make for it (passivs choices and beeing limited to max fire aura+gear) are ridiculous
Last edited by ciel289#7228 on Dec 6, 2013, 12:35:19 AM
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Posted byciel289#7228on Dec 6, 2013, 12:23:32 AM
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First of all lets look at D2 spells and how they functioned with lack of crit.
They scaled perfectly, damage was great, and no single class was really pidgeon holed into a certain element. All were good. This whole neccessity of crit / mult feels like a whole d3 sham to me. although it can be tuned upon.
Spells clearly dont have the clearing speeds that melee do and this could result in spells themselves just being underpowered in general. Although i still believe the spell damage nodes SHOULD be buffed, i think more importantly the current skills should have better clearing functionality.
If you played a blizz ball or a meteorb in d2 you know exactly what i mean.
IGN: Edgar_Ffs
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Posted byfxyo#5768on Dec 6, 2013, 2:28:30 AM
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Nodor wrote:
Summing up the points above, this is the argument that elemental spells are under-powered at the moment:
1. Right now the game starts physical damage at a higher benchmark and then scales that benchmark faster, more efficiently, and from more passive nodes than spell damage.
2. Physical attacks are based off of weapons, and abilities usually boost those weapons. Spectral throw does not "throw a spectral weapon for 2-4 damage" like a level 1 spell, it throws a weapon with a base 200+ damage that is then multiplied by some effect or percentage. Cleave, leap slam, dual strike etc, work much the same way.
3. Static adders are available to boost physical attacks. Iron Ring is the earliest example of this.
The solution to this is to drop some spell wand/staves/shields mods into the game. "Adds 50-100 Spell Damage" this could be scaled to match the "adds physical damage" mods. Create "adds elemental/chaos damage to spells items/mods" for the same basis/purpose.
4. Monsters effectively have zero physical resist.
Adding a zero to the armor values in Cruel and another zero to the armor values in Merciless would adjust physical damage to something closer to parity with spell damage. i.e. Monsters with 100 armor in Normal would have 1,000 armor in Cruel and 10,000 armor in Merciless. This could approximate the impact of resist reduction on spell damage. Until Physical damage characters CANNOT kill armored mobs from lack of damage they will not be facing the restrictions that spell based characters face when dealing with a "Curse Immune/Resists Elemental Damage/Life Regen" rare .
5. Strength based Physical Damage Builds appear to offer more survival early on.
Str gives both damage and HP.
Dex gives both damage (accuracy) and effective HP (evasion)
Int gives Mana and effective HP (ES)
Therefore STR characters base stats translate into damage and survival faster and easier for new players.
6. Spell inherent effects are reliant upon critical hits and therefore do not compensate for the above limitations.
TLDR version: Spells are weaksauce.
FOR THE DARK GODS!
IGN: Monokuma_Joestar
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Posted byLust#0341on Dec 6, 2013, 4:07:45 AM
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I only played witch since OB and i can say with confidence, spells do need some more love.
For starters, there is not enough spells period, we need more fire/ice/light spells that are actually end game good.
Also the fact that all mobs and their mother are resistant to elements, and bosses are all resistant to an extent, and curses do little to them.
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