[Strongest Solo Variation: Projectile Madness Spectres] LMP/GMP Ice Spear 2x Totem 2x Curse 3x Traps

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renroval wrote:

How strong is the damage of these builds compared to those of the LA ranger and EK shadows? Are they on par with map speed clearance or will this build fall behind by a large margin?

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Kech wrote:

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renroval wrote:

How strong is the damage of these builds compared to those of the LA ranger and EK shadows? Are they on par with map speed clearance or will this build fall behind by a large margin?

They are not very strong unless you are Extreme Luxury, but even then, ice witch builds are more focused on CC and other stuff than pure damage. In Pvp, you will have a lot more utility than they do.

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renroval wrote:

How strong is the damage of these builds compared to those of the LA ranger and EK shadows? Are they on par with map speed clearance or will this build fall behind by a large margin?

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renroval wrote:

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Kech wrote:

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renroval wrote:

How strong is the damage of these builds compared to those of the LA ranger and EK shadows? Are they on par with map speed clearance or will this build fall behind by a large margin?

They are not very strong unless you are Extreme Luxury, but even then, ice witch builds are more focused on CC and other stuff than pure damage. In Pvp, you will have a lot more utility than they do.

But who needs CC when you can one shot everything...

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Kech wrote:

Nyash, your math is wrong.


First of all, the gem affects the flat skill damage rather than damage per second.

100 - 30%) + 30% = 91 <------- This equation you wrote is mathematically wrong. +30%? It doesn't even make sense.

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Kech wrote:

The biggest flaw what all young people seem to misunderstand is you cannot calculate the gem bonuses on the basis of a variable of damage per second. It is not even equated that way.

You cannot use 100 damage per second.

But you can use 100 damage per projectile of ice spear as a theoretical constant.

LVL 19 GMP = [ 100 - (50%x100) ]*130% = 65.0

LVL 19 LMP = [ 100 - (30%x100) ]*132% = 92.4


So it's:

GMP at 65.0 DMG per Projectile without Attack Speed

LMP at 92.4 DMG per Projectile without Attack Speed

With speed calculation:

GMP = [65*107%]/100 = 69.55 Dmg per second on base value of 100% atk speed

LMP = [92.4*110%]/100 = 101.64 Dmg per second on base value of 100% atk speed

Both gems are level 19.
100 spell damage is used as a theoretical constant for example basis.

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Kech wrote:

Theoretically, one should worry about how much each projectile does when it hits an enemy more than the "Damage Per Second" which is a false understanding of damage.

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Malice wrote:

"% increased" or "% reduced" stack additively with one another, while "% more" and "% less" modifiers stack multiplicatively.
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example calculation
If you had a sword whose unmodified damage is 10-20, with the following modifiers:

50% increased physical damage on the weapon;
20% quality on the weapon;
5-10 added physical damage on the weapon;
6-9 added physical damage on a ring;
passive skills granting 30% increased sword damage;
a skill that does 40% increased damage and 30% less damage;

the calculation would would look like this:

Base damage: 10-20
Stage 1, on-weapon modifiers: (10-20 + 5-10) x (1 + 0.5 + 0.2) = 25.5-51
Stage 2, all other modifiers: (25.5-51 + 6-9) x (1 + 0.3 + 0.4) x 0.7 = 37-71

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nyash wrote:

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Kech wrote:

Nyash, your math is wrong.


First of all, the gem affects the flat skill damage rather than damage per second.

100 - 30%) + 30% = 91 <------- This equation you wrote is mathematically wrong. +30%? It doesn't even make sense.

100 + 30% means 100*( (100%+30%)/100% ) or 100 * (1 + 30%/100%) or 100*1.3

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Kech wrote:

The biggest flaw what all young people seem to misunderstand is you cannot calculate the gem bonuses on the basis of a variable of damage per second. It is not even equated that way.

You cannot use 100 damage per second.

But you can use 100 damage per projectile of ice spear as a theoretical constant.

LVL 19 GMP = [ 100 - (50%x100) ]*130% = 65.0

LVL 19 LMP = [ 100 - (30%x100) ]*132% = 92.4


So it's:

GMP at 65.0 DMG per Projectile without Attack Speed

LMP at 92.4 DMG per Projectile without Attack Speed

With speed calculation:

GMP = [65*107%]/100 = 69.55 Dmg per second on base value of 100% atk speed

LMP = [92.4*110%]/100 = 101.64 Dmg per second on base value of 100% atk speed

Both gems are level 19.
100 spell damage is used as a theoretical constant for example basis.

if you'd take a look on our calculations you'll see that in the very end DPS is the same in both mine and your calculations. the only difference is that you took lvl19gem (so lmp have +2% IPD). and yeah,
dps = total_damage * attacks_per_second so if you have 20% dmg bonus, then
increased_dmg = dmg * (1+20%/100%) = 1.2 * dmg
andyour totals dps
increased_dps = increased_dmg * attackspd = ( dmg * 1.2 ) * attackspd= 1.2 * dmg * attackspd = 1.2 * dps

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Kech wrote:

Theoretically, one should worry about how much each projectile does when it hits an enemy more than the "Damage Per Second" which is a false understanding of damage.

actually that's not true. if you have 1000dmg per projectile with 10 sec cast it's 5 times worst than 500dmg per projectile with 1 sec cast, because when your first projectile will hit target, my totem will make 10 shots (500*10=5000 dmg done). yeah, and in [trollmodon]real life your totem will be destroyed before it will cast at least one spear[/trollmodon]

i think all of us were wrong. according to the Mechanics thread (Modifier Stacking section)

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Malice wrote:

"% increased" or "% reduced" stack additively with one another, while "% more" and "% less" modifiers stack multiplicatively.
...
example calculation
If you had a sword whose unmodified damage is 10-20, with the following modifiers:

50% increased physical damage on the weapon;
20% quality on the weapon;
5-10 added physical damage on the weapon;
6-9 added physical damage on a ring;
passive skills granting 30% increased sword damage;
a skill that does 40% increased damage and 30% less damage;

the calculation would would look like this:

Base damage: 10-20
Stage 1, on-weapon modifiers: (10-20 + 5-10) x (1 + 0.5 + 0.2) = 25.5-51
Stage 2, all other modifiers: (25.5-51 + 6-9) x (1 + 0.3 + 0.4) x 0.7 = 37-71

. in my build i do have 98% increased cold/spell damage and additionally 80% spell damage from wand.
now, our calculations should be as follows (yeah,yeah - 100 dmg is a theoretical constant)
dmg per spear:
LMP: 100 * [ 1 + 0.98(passives) + 0.8(gear) + 0.32 (lmp lvl19 bonus) ] * {1 - 0.3(30% less damage)}=217dmg
GMP: 100 * [ 1 + 0.98(passives) + 0.8(gear) + 0.30 (lmp lvl19 bonus) ] * {1 - 0.5(50% less damage)}=154dmg

total dmg:
LMP: 217*3=651
GMP: 154*5=751

actually, you can remove %increased damage from this formula at all and then only two things matters in the end:
- % less damage
- number of projectiles hitting the target

but my vote still goes to LMP :)