[Strongest Solo Variation: Projectile Madness Spectres] LMP/GMP Ice Spear 2x Totem 2x Curse 3x Traps

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Vendetta00 wrote:

Almost every hit can shock the enemies.

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magicrectangle wrote:

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Vendetta00 wrote:

Almost every hit can shock the enemies.

Shock duration is based on damage, and if the duration will be lower than 300 ms the shock simply doesn't happen. The problem with the added lightning damage build is that it doesn't actually shock stuff. Sure if you're running docks solo it will shock, but if you're running high level maps (particularly in a group) you have exactly zero chance to shock the mobs, due to simply not doing enough lightning damage.

See here:
http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Shock#Shock

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Vendetta00 wrote:

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magicrectangle wrote:

"

Vendetta00 wrote:

Almost every hit can shock the enemies.

Shock duration is based on damage, and if the duration will be lower than 300 ms the shock simply doesn't happen. The problem with the added lightning damage build is that it doesn't actually shock stuff. Sure if you're running docks solo it will shock, but if you're running high level maps (particularly in a group) you have exactly zero chance to shock the mobs, due to simply not doing enough lightning damage.

See here:
http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Shock#Shock

I know that, this is one of my concerns.
But i dont know how many % i can do in 70+maps.
Is shock duration passive nodes a solution?

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Vendetta00 wrote:

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Vendetta00 wrote:

"

Vendetta00 wrote:

Almost every hit can shock the enemies.

Shock duration is based on damage, and if the duration will be lower than 300 ms the shock simply doesn't happen. The problem with the added lightning damage build is that it doesn't actually shock stuff. Sure if you're running docks solo it will shock, but if you're running high level maps (particularly in a group) you have exactly zero chance to shock the mobs, due to simply not doing enough lightning damage.

See here:
http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Shock#Shock

I know that, this is one of my concerns.
But i dont know how many % i can do in 70+maps.
Is shock duration passive nodes a solution?

"

Vendetta00 wrote:

I did some maths
Added lightning damage does 27% of ice spear damage at 20lv
So the duration should be 276ms x 0.27, which is 74.52ms
With 2 paasive nodes and 20% gem, the duration can be increased by at least 80%
The duration now is 135ms, so the mobs i can freeze, i can shock

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cathartist wrote:

Guys plz help me fix my dps! i see people talking about 1.7k and 2.1k ice spear dps but mine is only at 780. I must have screwed up.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/260785

please comment in this thread. Thanks in advance for anyone helpful enough to check it out!

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clon8888 wrote:

IThats some insane dps on ur ice spear.. mind link ur gear/gems?

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magicrectangle wrote:

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Vendetta00 wrote:

I did some maths
Added lightning damage does 27% of ice spear damage at 20lv
So the duration should be 276ms x 0.27, which is 74.52ms
With 2 paasive nodes and 20% gem, the duration can be increased by at least 80%
The duration now is 135ms, so the mobs i can freeze, i can shock

I see the relationship you're trying to establish, and it is a clever approach to the problem without having a table of monster HP values, but you haven't got it quite right.

You're trying to establish that:
cold damage / light damage * cold duration per damage / (shock duration per damage * modifiers) > 1

((157+235) / (5 + 101)) * (100 / (276 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2 + 0.15))) = 0.744387

So no, anything you can freeze, you cannot in fact shock, not on average damage anyway. However, there is more variance in lightning damage than cold damage, so a deeper analysis is needed.

Suppose we assume that your crit ice spears always freeze guys (that is, the minimum damage is enough), and we want to know how much lightning damage we need to do to be sure we can shock the guy:

((157) / (X)) * (100 / (276 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2 + 0.15))) = 1

X = 31.6

So in that scenario (101 - 31.6 - 5)/(101 - 5) = 67% of your crit ice spear hits would shock the enemies.

This is further changed of course if you're running frostbite, and not running conductivity. If we assume zero cold resist and zero lightning resist base on the mob, and frostbite + elemental weakness are our curses, and further that our frostbite is 20% quality:

((157 * (1+ 0.49 + 0.49) / (X*(1+ 0.49)) * ((100 * (1 + 0.2)) / (276 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2 + 0.15))) = 1

X = 50.4

So (101-50.4-5)/(101-5) = 47.5% of your crit ice spears would shock in that case.

edit: also it is 3 talent points, since you have to pass a useless node to get that extra 15% shock duration.

I also haven't accounted for %cold damage only from your gear/talents since I don't know your gear/talents. That will skew your expected shock chance lower.


edit 2: If I assume you got your 27% number from your tooltip, we can successfully modify the "average" formula above to account for your gear and talents:

(((1-0.27) * (1+ 0.49 + 0.49) / (0.27*(1+ 0.49)) * ((100 * (1 + 0.2)) / (276 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2 + 0.15))) = 0.867

So your shock duration (on average) is going to be 86.7% of your freeze duration.

I find the 27% number unlikely though, because it would imply that you have more %lightning damage than you do %cold damage. Without any %cold damage or %light damage your ice spear would be 21.3% lightning.