DonaldF's EK DANMAKU Ranger Extremely High DPS /Jan.14 little update [Videos]

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Rapidx wrote:

added fire or fireball as the 6th link?

Let's see, 30% bonus damage to spell or ... another spell?

FB

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Thorien_Kell wrote:

FB gives best flat damage although those shock stacks on arc could be sweet too. Ice versions are also good but more defensive (arctic breath).

Never tested increased crit damage must admit but I know from before that messing with crit damage could hurt you on reflect.

Arc is pretty good in groups, especially if your damage isnt so great or the map has enfeeble, fire resistance, phys resistance or other damage reducers. It's just as good as fireball in those situations imo. I can confirm it shock stacks very quickly because once i used it in a phys reflect map and the reflected damage was hitting like a truck, way more than usual. When soloing fireball is clearly better.

And yes, increased crit damage is pretty bad vs phys reflect, even with vaal pact. Personally it makes me able to one shot myself (making having VP or not irrelevant) if i used crit weakness and/or a diamond flask in a big pack. With fireball i dont have that worry at all. Another thing with phys reflect, if you use vaal pact, is that sometimes (somewhat rarely) the last thing you get is the damage, not the leech, meaning you have like 2/3 health going into the next pack (strangely only phys reflect does that, not ele). Increased crit damage exacerbates that problem a lot; if you're unlucky you could have almost no life going into the next pack. It's still a nice option for fire resistance maps i guess, but then you could use arc...

and why no talk about ice nova? if you want to freeze stuff it's pretty awesome. The AOE is pretty gigantic which is what you want for a pseudo freeze build.

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Thorien_Kell wrote:

As we would all friend, but as from last patch treacherous developers included 0,25s (iirc) cooldown in same spell connected to CoC, effectively destroying true Daanmaku, and possible any similar CoC spam centered builds. Somehow I think they do it deliberately just to destroy Danmaku, which was pretty OP so we must understand them, although we do not have to like it :)

Why do you think true Danmaku "died" anyway? ;)

What I can confirm is that having 2 EKs linked will provide more DPS than one. By how much though, more calculations will need to be done.

The other EK will still work, but with lesser DPS than before.

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Thorien_Kell wrote:

Attack speed does come in handy I admit, but there is rarely "room" for it, either in sockets on on dagger. Spell damage + high crit dagger beats fast one, I think, and any offensive spell (like fireball) will do lot more damage then faster attacks or added fire damage.

Since we agreed that other EK can't work, you have to pick some spell instead, which is not that terrible anyway, yes you lose hatred bonus but still some spells have quite high base damage (almost as high as EK) and can do other nice elemental effects too (like cold snap / freezing, shock stacks ...) so they 'make up' for loss.

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Thorien_Kell wrote:

Going ES/CI does remove need for BM but probably (as I can see I your gear setup) needs PCoC because of worse crit chance /so you effectively gain nothing in socket sense. 1 spot for offensive on 5L(EK) or 2 spots on 6L(EK + discharge or whatever), that is what you're doing now.

If you really had place for 3 slots, going without PCoC, best thing would be to use EK +FB +Arc, for example, then any combination you suggest - just how high would your crit chance be I wonder ...

That's if you choose to follow my gem combination. You could choose to go EK plus 2 other spell gems using my build too. I have been experimenting with various gem combinations in the past month, using safely over 1000 chroms. I even tested EK-Desecrate-Detonate Dead yesterday. DPS is very decent :)

If you choose to go for 2 EKs (yes they do not do as much damage as before but still it does more DPS than only one EK), the max DPS combi would be EK-EK-Added Fire/Faster Attacks. Sole purpose of AF/FA is because DPS of both EKs can scale off the last gem.

If you choose to go for 1EK, then yes it is better to go for two other spells. In my opinion, I would go for EK-Fireball-Arc/Shock Nova.

another spell will always be better than any support unless a support ggg makes doubles ur EK damage. that doesnt exist atm so pik ur spell and stop screwin around with trying to link a red socket into somthing that doesnt need it or benefit from that support. ur makin ur life ingame harder than necessary.

fireball is far superior to any support. accept it and embrace the fact that added fire isnt enough. any spell will work really. my main experience is with volls ek coldsnap. it turns u into a mobile freeze mine and is truly amazing for survivability.

my recommendations are:
--coldsnap if u use volls.
--fireball for highest dps.
--arc for shock stacks in parties.

if u wear carcas jac:
--flamblast works no joke...ignite on Q.
--storm call.
--fireball.
--coldsnap with Romira's Banquet + bereks grip kiks ass.(very good for non volls & shield users)
-any other aoe works too.

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Wishinan wrote:

What I can confirm is that having 2 EKs linked will provide more DPS than one. By how much though, more calculations will need to be done.

The other EK will still work, but with lesser DPS than before.

Well it's very simple, each spell has chance to trigger independently /but cooldown will affect both if they are same. This is crap really, it can be helpful on low crit chance but more you increase chances lousier it becomes;

for example on 50% crit chance EK +EK will net 50% /50% = 75% chance, meaning other spell will improve chances by 25%

on 75% crit chance other spell will net 75 + 75% = 94%, thus improving chances by 19%

but on 90% chance other spell will improve 90+90% = 99% which is only 9%.

For comparison - fireball, even if we take it's base value as 85% of EK's damage will trigger also at 90%, which means that we have 90% damage of EK and (90x85) 77% damage from fireball. Those ADD this time because one does not prevent other from firing. It's 167% of damage, comparing to 99% from 2 EK's.

So, as we were saying, other spell is clearly better ;)

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That's if you choose to follow my gem combination. You could choose to go EK plus 2 other spell gems using my build too. I have been experimenting with various gem combinations in the past month, using safely over 1000 chroms. I even tested EK-Desecrate-Detonate Dead yesterday. DPS is very decent :)

If you choose to go for 2 EKs (yes they do not do as much damage as before but still it does more DPS than only one EK), the max DPS combi would be EK-EK-Added Fire/Faster Attacks. Sole purpose of AF/FA is because DPS of both EKs can scale off the last gem.

Even if EKs would work as pre patch, it would be worse combination then other spells, not EKs by itself, but added fire and Faster attacks.

For Example you would have 100%+100% damage from EK, meaning 200% +30% +30% from faster attacks and added fire would result in 320% of damage, all rough estimations really.

If you would use 4 attack spells /instead of 2 attack + 2 support, you would have 400% of damage. So it still beats support.

CoC simply adds possibility of firing multiple spells for free, it's rare opportunity and support spells simply cannot compete there, they are made for single attacks, while CoC can do multi attacks.

Hope you got how it works now. Forget added fire or faster att, stick other attack spell there, it is better solution without exception.

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drake1666 wrote:

It's just as good as fireball in those situations imo. I can confirm it shock stacks very quickly because once i used it in a phys reflect map and the reflected damage was hitting like a truck, way more than usual. When soloing fireball is clearly better.

I have several characters build around shock stacks, they improve dpg gradually to nearly 100% of bonus damage (twice) - with fast attack speed and auras you can abuse this mechanics very well.

I am even not certain that FB can compete even when soloing. Each hit from arc has good chance of softening targets both to arc and EK in consecutive attacks. And it has bigger AoE.

Anyway, it's valid alternative without doubt.

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Another thing with phys reflect, if you use vaal pact, is that sometimes (somewhat rarely) the last thing you get is the damage, not the leech, meaning you have like 2/3 health going into the next pack (strangely only phys reflect does that, not ele).

That's an interesting story :) That's why I have never noticed it on my discharger.

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and why no talk about ice nova? if you want to freeze stuff it's pretty awesome. The AOE is pretty gigantic which is what you want for a pseudo freeze build.

It does not chill ground like AB, hass slightly smaller damage (175 vs 224 on lvl 18) but that AoE could really be useful.

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Thorien_Kell wrote:

For comparison - fireball, even if we take it's base value as 85% of EK's damage will trigger also at 90%, which means that we have 90% damage of EK and (90x85) 77% damage from fireball. Those ADD this time because one does not prevent other from firing. It's 167% of damage, comparing to 99% from 2 EK's.

So, as we were saying, other spell is clearly better ;)

You have to include the 36% Increased Physical Damage as Cold Damage from Hatred as well as the 24% Increased Physical Damage you get from your Rustic Sash, for both EKs :)

After you do that you realise the values are way different :)

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Thorien_Kell wrote:

CoC simply adds possibility of firing multiple spells for free, it's rare opportunity and support spells simply cannot compete there, they are made for single attacks, while CoC can do multi attacks.

Hope you got how it works now. Forget added fire or faster att, stick other attack spell there, it is better solution without exception.

I'm not so sure about the exception part, since other support gems like Increased Critical Damage can do way more DPS..

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Wishinan wrote:

You have to include the 36% Increased Physical Damage as Cold Damage from Hatred as well as the 24% Increased Physical Damage you get from your Rustic Sash, for both EKs :)

After you do that you realise the values are way different :)

You are not very good ad math, are you?

Difference between one and double EK is 9%. Nine. Percent.
90% vs 99%

Tell me how strong should buffs be on that 9% to reach 77% damage more from fireball? 3000 %?

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Wishinan wrote:

I'm not so sure about the exception part, since other support gems like Increased Critical Damage can do way more DPS..

Possible, but it depends on gear and passives. Multiplier to work spell actually must crit itself - I have around 35,7% spell chance crit /with multiplier 285%. Will it tops lvl 20 FB? I doubt it but you are free to calculate result, since I have only 5L don't care really ;)

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Thorien_Kell wrote:

You are not very good ad math, are you?

Difference between one and double EK is 9%. Nine. Percent.
90% vs 99%

Tell me how strong should buffs be on that 9% to reach 77% damage more from fireball? 3000 %?

If it is indeed only a mere 9%, then a second EK would be a bad idea. Then again I'm not sure if this is true, but I'm assuming it is. It is hard to test in-game because CoC is so much RNG that sometimes you take 4 seconds to kill Piety and on other days you take 8 :/

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Thorien_Kell wrote:

Possible, but it depends on gear and passives. Multiplier to work spell actually must crit itself - I have around 35,7% spell chance crit /with multiplier 285%. Will it tops lvl 20 FB? I doubt it but you are free to calculate result, since I have only 5L don't care really ;)

Ye, I have ~54% Crit Chance for EK (and 86% Crit Chance for Discharge) when fully buffed, so maybe that's why Increased Critical Damage does more DPS for me.

I think Increased Critical Damage is the only support gem that can outdo other spells.