Chris: ALT-F4 LEGIT STRAT

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syrioforel wrote:

I don't claim that a logout timer is necessary. I'm saying that the following things do not make sense:

1) Having a death penalty.
2) Not having a logout timer.
3) Balancing around the ability to circumvent the death penalty.

And I agree with all that. I was merely offering my thoughts on the bit I quoted from you regarding D3. Sorry if it seemed I took issue with the rest of your post as I don't :)

This thread has too many good ideas and is too controversial, im surprised you havent buried it in a dead forum so no one can read it yet

So it seems we might be misinterpreting what was written then? It came off as boss fights were balanced knowing that we may AltF4 out of there. So it allowed the use of spike damage in a more liberal way. Turning it into a game mechanic more so than a way for some easy cheese.

If this is not the case, I take back all of my posts lol.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

So it seems we might be misinterpreting what was written then? It came off as boss fights were balanced knowing that we may AltF4 out of there. So it allowed the use of spike damage in a more liberal way. Turning it into a game mechanic more so than a way for some easy cheese.

If this is not the case, I take back all of my posts lol.

Of course we balance knowing players will Alt-F4 out of there.

We also balance knowing players will never Alt-F4, or portal out, and want to be able to win that fight fairly.

We balance knowing that players will play solo.

We balance knowing they'll only ever do that fight rushed.

We balance knowing that players are only there for the loot.

We balance knowing that players are only there for a good challenge.

there's nothing to be ashamed, i do alt + f4 all the day when im about to lose ranked matches on my favorite fighting game. ;)

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Qarl wrote:

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Jackel6672 wrote:

So it seems we might be misinterpreting what was written then? It came off as boss fights were balanced knowing that we may AltF4 out of there. So it allowed the use of spike damage in a more liberal way. Turning it into a game mechanic more so than a way for some easy cheese.

If this is not the case, I take back all of my posts lol.

Of course we balance knowing players will Alt-F4 out of there.

We also balance knowing players will never Alt-F4, or portal out, and want to be able to win that fight fairly.

We balance knowing that players will play solo.

We balance knowing they'll only ever do that fight rushed.

We balance knowing that players are only there for the loot.

We balance knowing that players are only there for a good challenge.

So... no balance?

lol , j.k.

You cant possibly balance a game around being able to exit the game. Something that removes the player from the game is not part of the game.

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xBODOMxDISCIPLEx wrote:

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syrioforel wrote:

I don't claim that a logout timer is necessary. I'm saying that the following things do not make sense:

1) Having a death penalty.
2) Not having a logout timer.
3) Balancing around the ability to circumvent the death penalty.

And I agree with all that. I was merely offering my thoughts on the bit I quoted from you regarding D3. Sorry if it seemed I took issue with the rest of your post as I don't :)

Sure thing -- posts can be ambiguous ;D.

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Qarl wrote:

We certainly don't make any fight such that we expect a well prepared player to leave to be able to finish the fight. On the other hand we know that players can and will exit fights in some circumstances, and like to pick much bigger fights than they can handle.

It's good to know that instant exit isn't a linchpin of the balance design, it would be good to know if using it is "in the spirit of the game" or not -- whether it's viewed as a valid tactic or considered to be abusive. I want to play the game you've designed, not some other game that is PoE-shaped.

Hypothetically, and I apologize for using the "B" word, but if botting were condoned (I know it's not) I would be running as many bots as possible. I'd expect the drop rate and currency rate to be lower to compensate for the bots roaming the servers. On the other hand, if botting were prohibitively hard to track down, so that it couldn't be punished, but if it were actively discouraged, I wouldn't do it, since it would be cheating, and I'd know the gameplay wasn't set up with botting in mind. (Just an example. I know it's banned. I don't bot.)

Pressing Alt+F4 when you awared of your definite death always requires a delay, and almost that delay killed my char or elseqhere we can use that delay to run or press flask.

so i found Alt+F4 always no use, is there anyway GGG can design a passive node with Ignore Penalty in Pressing alt+F4 or I need a bind key to log out.

Seriously, its not that interesting when i have to escape that fucking boss, i dont want to be that such loser but i prefer escaping than re-grind my 10% exp, it took a whole day to get back 10% lol, btw i hate that penalty system too, 10% is freaking unbelievable.

Nevertheless, i still love this game despite of my countless death and useless countless farming time with no valuable uni, 10hours/day/2 months and still unable to find shav. Its diversity hold me back that long.

People seem to be forgetting something - Alt-F4 is NOT a game-specific "exploit" or "glitch" or anything - it's simply a windows OS shortcut for closing the current program/window that's been around FOREVER - it would have to be actively programmed against, and is simply a tool, not an exploit.

Some of these have already been mentioned, but here goes, again, from a long time D2 fan, (but hate D3)

1.) Alt-F4 is not super easy to press if you come around a corner and get mobbed - you can die REALLY fast, so there's some skill involved, and if you can manage it every time, more power to you.

2.) Long, drawn out, attrition style boss fights (SEE WOW OR ANYTHING RECENT BY BLIZZ) are boring as F**K. Hey if I stand here and push enough buttons for long enough, I win, so I don't need to use alt F4 because they "programmed around it" - I call BS - it is MUCH more exciting to have damage spikes that can take out half your life in a shot BUT the flip side is:

3.) there will NEVER. I repeat NEVER. be a "perfect" game. Even if GGG somehow magically COMPLETELY got rid of desync - so much insane server speed the entire population of earth playing the game wouldn't lag the servers...there is STILL: shi**y ISPs, bad hardware on the user side, power outtages, siblings attacking you while playing the game, cats jumping on keyboards, etc etc
there is a NEED for a program exit button because LIFE takes precedence over gaming most of the time - if you're a big enough nerd that it doesn't, I'm sorry, that's your personal problem.

4.) GGG never said they programmed the game SO THAT people would use alt F4 - so all you people saying that maybe are missing the point. It would appear Chris and the gang are saying - it's a NECESSARY and useful TOOL, to have in the game, and SINCE there is the option that quick-fingered folk MIGHT be able to use it to get out of boring attrition style fights (see above) then they'd better have interesting/spikey fights.

I am totally fine with this (opinion) and support the devs in this decision, because it's the right one - the timer in D3 HC was stupid and frustrating - I'll give up a momentary immersion (boo hoo seriously?) for less frustration because my level 80 char died through no fault of my own

LONG LIVE ALT F4

LONG LIVE GGG

Peace out ladies and gents :D