We players want an auction house

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Ceri wrote:

Haven't read the thread and I'm not going to. Just want to say that I certainly do NOT want an auction house in this game. Trading already killed D3, I don't want to see the same thing happen to PoE.

Oh, and stop claiming you speak for all players ("we players.."). I can guarantee you this is not the case.

Except the problem with D3 was still the loot system, not the existence of the auction house. An auction house itself doesn't ruin the game - not more than what we currently have in PoE at least. If your argument is that you can't find useful things then newsflash: the same shit happens in PoE. Piety drops a lot of loot especially with rarity gear, yet after like a thousand runs (like 350 just this week) I've got very few items which were worth something to other players. Now imagine me having done maps instead of that: I would've lost currency on rolling maps AND I would've got even less loot.

An auction house just shows and magnifies if a problem with the loot system exists. The non-existence of one just causes confusion so the problem isn't nearly as easy to spot. If D3 works fine after the changes it won't be because the Auction House was removed but because the loot system gets reworked.

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Aelloon wrote:

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Ceri wrote:

Haven't read the thread and I'm not going to. Just want to say that I certainly do NOT want an auction house in this game. Trading already killed D3, I don't want to see the same thing happen to PoE.

Oh, and stop claiming you speak for all players ("we players.."). I can guarantee you this is not the case.

Except the problem with D3 was still the loot system, not the existence of the auction house. An auction house itself doesn't ruin the game - not more than what we currently have in PoE at least. If your argument is that you can't find useful things then newsflash: the same shit happens in PoE.

^this.
In D3 the crappy loot was designed in concordance with RMAH but I don't see any RMAH in PoE yet the same problem exists. It's not like I didn't find shit for 2 weeks, oh well, I'm gonna buy this footprint effect instead. wtf.

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Aelloon wrote:

An auction house just shows and magnifies if a problem with the loot system exists. The non-existence of one just causes confusion so the problem isn't nearly as easy to spot. If D3 works fine after the changes it won't be because the Auction House was removed but because the loot system gets reworked.

Yes.. You are correct of course. Thanks for putting it so eloquently. :)

Still, I don't like trading in ARPGs and to me the AH and it's link to the drop quality completely killed D3 for me. If no trading was allowed, better loot can drop. This is more or less what they're hoping to do in the expansion - we shall see.

Trading in my opinion always leads to pay-2-win. Of course far from everyone would do something like that, but fact remains you can buy tons of orbs on eBay and similar sites. That just makes me sad.

I may be an old geezer but I've always subscribed to the idea of finding loot yourself, not trading for it. I'll stick to my guns. ;)

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I strongly believe that no business or political action requires deception. Ever.

That is not to say that I do not have a healthy respect for the drawbacks of candor. Sometimes the best course is to shut up and say nothing, rather than sharing your thoughts. But this is not deception. Waiting for an opponent in a game to make a mistake is not deception. It is simply waiting.

You know that whole trading ritual thing where no one wants to make an offer first? That's not deception, that's a lack of candor. And is perfectly fine, and in no way a scam. If one person does make an offer first — and the offer made is ridiculously beneficial to the other party — there is still zero deception used.

Both of them can very well be attempting to deceive the other one. Choosing to say nothing in order to trick a person to do or say something that will favor you: yet another form of a deception attempt.

I consider the intent to be of major importance though; some simply say nothing because they are genuinely afraid of offending the other person; the fear is what drives them in that case and not their desire to fool the other player. In other cases, the intent is to fool the other one.

You seem to imply that "scamming" is somehow always wrong? I disagree with that if that's your implication, for the reasons I've stated previously.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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BolshoiToo wrote:

This player wants them to eliminate trading and rebalance drop rates accordingly.

It's not that drop rates are balanced around trading, it's that trading is balanced around drop diversity. In order to allow for a broad diversity of itemization in various builds, you need to have a majority of the items you find be useful to builds other than your own. Increasing the drop rate isn't going to do anything to make it so the vast majority of the stuff you find is more valuable in the hands of other players than it is in your own. The only difference will be that now you can't get any value out of it (other than vendor formulas), because you can't trade it away. Trading actually really helps by allowing players to exchange good rolls on items for builds other than their own, for the ability to get good rolls on items for their build.

If you increase the drop rate of crafting currency sufficientely, you won't ever have to trade, since you can craft good enough gear yourself. However, being handed that on the silver plate goes against the gear grind philosophy of GGG.

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Ceri wrote:

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Aelloon wrote:

An auction house just shows and magnifies if a problem with the loot system exists. The non-existence of one just causes confusion so the problem isn't nearly as easy to spot. If D3 works fine after the changes it won't be because the Auction House was removed but because the loot system gets reworked.

Yes.. You are correct of course. Thanks for putting it so eloquently. :)

Still, I don't like trading in ARPGs and to me the AH and it's link to the drop quality completely killed D3 for me. If no trading was allowed, better loot can drop. This is more or less what they're hoping to do in the expansion - we shall see.

Trading in my opinion always leads to pay-2-win. Of course far from everyone would do something like that, but fact remains you can buy tons of orbs on eBay and similar sites. That just makes me sad.

I may be an old geezer but I've always subscribed to the idea of finding loot yourself, not trading for it. I'll stick to my guns. ;)

PoE has already gotten to a point where you have to trade to win, you basically can't do endgame content effectively without trading

Thing is, it wouldn't surprise me if PoE gravitated to an AH system, either voluntarily or by a 3rd party system. There are so many build enabling uniques (plus the fact that finding this stuff, self found, is next to impossible) along with the massive gear checks, means that eventually, people will resort to an AH style system so they can efficiently get what they need

Its barely bearable now, but every unique that GGG adds, and every mod they add into the pool, and every item tier upgrade that they do, makes the situation worse and worse in regards to PoE's reliance on trading

Its going to hit a point where it becomes more effecient to trade and play, many top tier players already spend significant amounts of time trading, and ironically this is the reason why PoE doesn't want an AH (because they want people to play the game)

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Ceri wrote:

Haven't read the thread and I'm not going to. Just want to say that I certainly do NOT want an auction house in this game. Trading already killed D3, I don't want to see the same thing happen to PoE.

Exactly, >trading< killed D3, not the Auction House. We already have trading in PoE, threfore PoE is gonna get killed by trading too.

(an arpg that replaces hack&slash looting with trading, is doomed, AH or stupid slow bartering, doesnt matter...)

I don't want to have to stand around and spam trade chat/read spam, or go out of the game to deal with gear. It's a nuisance. An auction house seems the obvious way around this. The only real difference I see between spamming chat and an AH is convenience.

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BolshoiToo wrote:

This player wants them to eliminate trading and rebalance drop rates accordingly.

I'd like this just as much, if not better. Maybe as its own league.

The usual excuse of fanboys, who think this PoE clunky trading system is for some reason superior to evil Blizz AH machination, is that AH prompts people "to play the trade".

Which is a ridiculous argument, since you can play the trade in PoE too. Not only that - in PoE you must play the trade (ie. waste time manually trading) if you want anything bought or sold. In an automated system you put the item on the auction, and go back to hack&slash. In poE you must idle in town, spam chat, annoy people (or be annoyed by people), check forums, check 3rd party indexers... Nothing of this has anything to do with ARPGing!

If there must be trading in an ARPG, then an AH is far superior in all aspects to PoE bartering / scamming system.

Now Blizz is not removing AH, because AH ruins the game, its because they finally got it that trading itself is ruining the hack&slash looting - the very essence of ARPG games.

Having a game balanced around trading and global economy, and at the same time having a slow sorry-ass bartering / scamming system, is the worst solution of them all.

Why is this still in discussion? GGG said it like 10 times: will never happen.