We players want an auction house

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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mazul wrote:

Can I use item X to get item Y? Yes, by transfering the item X to him. Isn't that a possible use of item X? Well of course of it is.

A transfer is not a use. Owning a car, or selling a car, or buying a car, isn't using a car. "Trade use" borders on a contradiction in terms, because it's generally items which aren't being used which are offered by both players.

Value depends on use. For all trades, either the end recipient of an item is a user, or the item never found use. An item might change hands multiple times, but it is only its use (and scarcity) which determine how much it is worth while it changes hands. And with zero potential use comes zero value.

Owning a car is not an use of the car for the owner, selling a car is an use of the car for the seller, buying a car is not an use of the car for the buyer.

"verb (used with object)
1.
to employ for some purpose; put into service; make use of: to use a knife."

To sell a car to get money is certainly a way to employ the car for the purpose of obtaining money.

It is not employed, it is not put into service, and defining "use" as "to make use of" is some stupidity on the part of the dictionary folk.

Driving your car to deliver pizzas, or as a taxicab, that is employing your car to make money. Selling it isn't.

edit: This seems like it's just going back and forth, but it's an important point. People act as if orbs they trade away are used. They are not. They still exist, they haven't been consumed, they haven't left the economy. Yet. The person you traded them to might use them, or he might retrade them... but at the end of the day, the only way orbs are used is by people who actually use them, whether it's on gear or on end-game maps, whether you call it crafting or gambling — that is their primary function and basis for value. Even if it changes hands 9 times after you trade it away, every orb is consumed eventually. Orbs are not hoarded forever.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It is not employed, it is not put into service, and defining "use" as "to make use of" is some stupidity on the part of the dictionary folk.

Employ:
"to make use of (an instrument, means, etc.); use; apply: to employ a hammer to drive a nail."

Around and around we go.

That's just semantics though. So let's go to a more relevant question: "What can you do with item X". Well you can trade it for item Y. Are all the answers to that question given to every player? No. There is a lack of information.

People use theater to convey a false picture to opposing party in order to make trades which are favorable to oneself; a matter of deception. Is deception wrong when it comes to trading in a hardcore game like Path of Exile? No, I think should be allowed, just like it is in EVE.

Deception is a very important tool both in business and politics :).

I strongly believe that no business or political action requires deception. Ever.

That is not to say that I do not have a healthy respect for the drawbacks of candor. Sometimes the best course is to shut up and say nothing, rather than sharing your thoughts. But this is not deception. Waiting for an opponent in a game to make a mistake is not deception. It is simply waiting.

You know that whole trading ritual thing where no one wants to make an offer first? That's not deception, that's a lack of candor. And is perfectly fine, and in no way a scam. If one person does make an offer first — and the offer made is ridiculously beneficial to the other party — there is still zero deception used.

This player wants them to eliminate trading and rebalance drop rates accordingly.

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BolshoiToo wrote:

This player wants them to eliminate trading and rebalance drop rates accordingly.

It's not that drop rates are balanced around trading, it's that trading is balanced around drop diversity. In order to allow for a broad diversity of itemization in various builds, you need to have a majority of the items you find be useful to builds other than your own. Increasing the drop rate isn't going to do anything to make it so the vast majority of the stuff you find is more valuable in the hands of other players than it is in your own. The only difference will be that now you can't get any value out of it (other than vendor formulas), because you can't trade it away. Trading actually really helps by allowing players to exchange good rolls on items for builds other than their own, for the ability to get good rolls on items for their build.

Haven't read the thread and I'm not going to. Just want to say that I certainly do NOT want an auction house in this game. Trading already killed D3, I don't want to see the same thing happen to PoE.

Oh, and stop claiming you speak for all players ("we players.."). I can guarantee you this is not the case.

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Ceri wrote:

Haven't read the thread and I'm not going to. Just want to say that I certainly do NOT want an auction house in this game. Trading already killed D3, I don't want to see the same thing happen to PoE.

Oh, and stop claiming you speak for all players ("we players.."). I can guarantee you this is not the case.

Except the problem with D3 was still the loot system, not the existence of the auction house. An auction house itself doesn't ruin the game - not more than what we currently have in PoE at least. If your argument is that you can't find useful things then newsflash: the same shit happens in PoE. Piety drops a lot of loot especially with rarity gear, yet after like a thousand runs (like 350 just this week) I've got very few items which were worth something to other players. Now imagine me having done maps instead of that: I would've lost currency on rolling maps AND I would've got even less loot.

An auction house just shows and magnifies if a problem with the loot system exists. The non-existence of one just causes confusion so the problem isn't nearly as easy to spot. If D3 works fine after the changes it won't be because the Auction House was removed but because the loot system gets reworked.

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Aelloon wrote:

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Ceri wrote:

Haven't read the thread and I'm not going to. Just want to say that I certainly do NOT want an auction house in this game. Trading already killed D3, I don't want to see the same thing happen to PoE.

Oh, and stop claiming you speak for all players ("we players.."). I can guarantee you this is not the case.

Except the problem with D3 was still the loot system, not the existence of the auction house. An auction house itself doesn't ruin the game - not more than what we currently have in PoE at least. If your argument is that you can't find useful things then newsflash: the same shit happens in PoE.

^this.
In D3 the crappy loot was designed in concordance with RMAH but I don't see any RMAH in PoE yet the same problem exists. It's not like I didn't find shit for 2 weeks, oh well, I'm gonna buy this footprint effect instead. wtf.

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Aelloon wrote:

An auction house just shows and magnifies if a problem with the loot system exists. The non-existence of one just causes confusion so the problem isn't nearly as easy to spot. If D3 works fine after the changes it won't be because the Auction House was removed but because the loot system gets reworked.

Yes.. You are correct of course. Thanks for putting it so eloquently. :)

Still, I don't like trading in ARPGs and to me the AH and it's link to the drop quality completely killed D3 for me. If no trading was allowed, better loot can drop. This is more or less what they're hoping to do in the expansion - we shall see.

Trading in my opinion always leads to pay-2-win. Of course far from everyone would do something like that, but fact remains you can buy tons of orbs on eBay and similar sites. That just makes me sad.

I may be an old geezer but I've always subscribed to the idea of finding loot yourself, not trading for it. I'll stick to my guns. ;)