We players want an auction house

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mazul wrote:

Any item have both a combat use but also a trade use.

Bullshit. Items have combat uses and trade valuations. A valuation isn't a use; furthermore, the valuation is dependent on only two things: how many people would want to use it (which is fully dependent on its usefulness, which means is fully a function of its rules text), and how common it is. If you know both the rules text and the approximate droprate of an item, you should be able to determine its approximate trade value without any assistance from anyone.

All you need to know to figure an approximate droprate of something is to farm long enough.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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mazul wrote:

Any item have both a combat use but also a trade use.

Bullshit. Items have combat uses and trade valuations. A valuation isn't a use; furthermore, the valuation is dependent on only three things: the use itself (how useful is it), how many people would want to use it (which is also dependent on its use), and how common it is. If you know both the rules text and the approximate droprate of an item, you should be able to determine its approximate trade value without any assistance from anyone.

Can I use item X to get item Y? Yes, by transfering the item X to him. Isn't that a possible use of item X? Well of course of it is.

Just like a 100 dollar bill can be used to get an item with a "100 dollar" price tag in a store, but also used to make a paper airplane.

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mazul wrote:

Can I use item X to get item Y? Yes, by transfering the item X to him. Isn't that a possible use of item X? Well of course of it is.

A transfer is not a use. Owning a car, or selling a car, or buying a car, isn't using a car. "Trade use" borders on a contradiction in terms, because it's generally items which aren't being used which are offered by both players.

Value depends on use. For all trades, either the end recipient of an item is a user, or the item never found use. An item might change hands multiple times, but it is only its use (and scarcity) which determine how much it is worth while it changes hands. And with zero potential use comes zero value.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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mazul wrote:

Can I use item X to get item Y? Yes, by transfering the item X to him. Isn't that a possible use of item X? Well of course of it is.

A transfer is not a use. Owning a car, or selling a car, or buying a car, isn't using a car. "Trade use" borders on a contradiction in terms, because it's generally items which aren't being used which are offered by both players.

Value depends on use. For all trades, either the end recipient of an item is a user, or the item never found use. An item might change hands multiple times, but it is only its use (and scarcity) which determine how much it is worth while it changes hands. And with zero potential use comes zero value.

Owning a car is not an use of the car for the owner, selling a car is an use of the car for the seller, buying a car is not an use of the car for the buyer.

"verb (used with object)
1.
to employ for some purpose; put into service; make use of: to use a knife."

To sell a car to get money is certainly a way to employ the car for the purpose of obtaining money.

It is not employed, it is not put into service, and defining "use" as "to make use of" is some stupidity on the part of the dictionary folk.

Driving your car to deliver pizzas, or as a taxicab, that is employing your car to make money. Selling it isn't.

edit: This seems like it's just going back and forth, but it's an important point. People act as if orbs they trade away are used. They are not. They still exist, they haven't been consumed, they haven't left the economy. Yet. The person you traded them to might use them, or he might retrade them... but at the end of the day, the only way orbs are used is by people who actually use them, whether it's on gear or on end-game maps, whether you call it crafting or gambling — that is their primary function and basis for value. Even if it changes hands 9 times after you trade it away, every orb is consumed eventually. Orbs are not hoarded forever.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It is not employed, it is not put into service, and defining "use" as "to make use of" is some stupidity on the part of the dictionary folk.

Employ:
"to make use of (an instrument, means, etc.); use; apply: to employ a hammer to drive a nail."

Around and around we go.

That's just semantics though. So let's go to a more relevant question: "What can you do with item X". Well you can trade it for item Y. Are all the answers to that question given to every player? No. There is a lack of information.

People use theater to convey a false picture to opposing party in order to make trades which are favorable to oneself; a matter of deception. Is deception wrong when it comes to trading in a hardcore game like Path of Exile? No, I think should be allowed, just like it is in EVE.

Deception is a very important tool both in business and politics :).

I strongly believe that no business or political action requires deception. Ever.

That is not to say that I do not have a healthy respect for the drawbacks of candor. Sometimes the best course is to shut up and say nothing, rather than sharing your thoughts. But this is not deception. Waiting for an opponent in a game to make a mistake is not deception. It is simply waiting.

You know that whole trading ritual thing where no one wants to make an offer first? That's not deception, that's a lack of candor. And is perfectly fine, and in no way a scam. If one person does make an offer first — and the offer made is ridiculously beneficial to the other party — there is still zero deception used.

This player wants them to eliminate trading and rebalance drop rates accordingly.

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BolshoiToo wrote:

This player wants them to eliminate trading and rebalance drop rates accordingly.

It's not that drop rates are balanced around trading, it's that trading is balanced around drop diversity. In order to allow for a broad diversity of itemization in various builds, you need to have a majority of the items you find be useful to builds other than your own. Increasing the drop rate isn't going to do anything to make it so the vast majority of the stuff you find is more valuable in the hands of other players than it is in your own. The only difference will be that now you can't get any value out of it (other than vendor formulas), because you can't trade it away. Trading actually really helps by allowing players to exchange good rolls on items for builds other than their own, for the ability to get good rolls on items for their build.

Haven't read the thread and I'm not going to. Just want to say that I certainly do NOT want an auction house in this game. Trading already killed D3, I don't want to see the same thing happen to PoE.

Oh, and stop claiming you speak for all players ("we players.."). I can guarantee you this is not the case.