To all legit players

"

MrDDT wrote:

This just forces people to party play like you want to play.

Next to each other, and spamming AOE's.

What about the people that are more about being a tank for harder monsters? or the ones that res mobs so necros cant kill them?

If you have been in a party you can clearly see how ineffective it is to be hitting the same mobs as someone else also.

Not sure where you get +30% exp, but this is the quote

"

Effect on experience
For a description on how experience is shared between players, see the level scaling section above. Only party members actually in the instance count toward getting XP. If one member is in town he gets no XP.
Experience is only shared with other players who are near you (roughly two screens). Monsters are still made harder by players elsewhere on the level.
Being in an are with a party member grants you a 30% experience bonus.
Monsters give +50% base XP for every party member after the first.

The way I read it.

If you are in a zone while in a party you get +30% exp.
Each mob gives 50% more exp per party member.

So if you are in a 2 person party, killing solo, in the same zone (not in range of each other)
You would get 100% mob exp +50% mob exp per party member after the first (total of 150% mob exp) plus 30% for being in a zone with a party.
ie.
Mob normally gives 1000 exp. It would now give 1500 exp. The player would get 1500exp * 1.30 (+30% for being in a party) which is really 1950 exp per monster.

If you are near your party member you would get the exp based on your level, so say you were equal level you would get 1/2 the exp of 1950 exp.

If you were in a 6 man party, killing solo you would get.
1000exp * 5x1.50% = 7500exp * 1.30 = 9750 per monster killed solo.

If you were next to your party of 6 and all equal level. You would get 1/6th the exp AKA 16.67%. So 9750x.1667 = 1625 exp.


Having said this, with the testing of exp (using gems). I dont believe this is how it works.
I believe its +65% per person exp.

So using the same numbers above
2 man party, solo killing.
1000x1.65 = 1650 exp per monster
2man party, killing with your party equal level.
1650/2 = 825exp per monster killed.

6 man party, solo killing.
1000x4.25 (.65x5 +1) = 4250 exp
6 man party, killing with your party equal levels.
4250exp/6 = 708exp.

I didn't say that's how I wanted to play.... I said from experience that is what happens. Also, because minions assign who did the damage back to the player, then your minions hitting things will still toggle the flag on.

as for your maths, you are correct. however, that is also what I said, no different. I just didn't do the maths calculations. Hell, you even quoted the mechanics thread that shows the 30% !! :)

Also, based on your testing, it appears that the formula (current) isXPGroup = BaseXP*1.3*(1+.5*n), where n is the players. Then XPearnedByPlayer = XPGroup/n.

hence you get 65% boost per player (the 30% group bonus is applying at the same time as the number of players boost, not after the xp is split between players.

Also the tank for harder monsters will still damage the monster, but most of the DPS comes from someone elese, therefore flag is toggled. no problem there.

Also, the way the system is now, IS the problem. Hence you can boost XP by having a party in the instance but them hiding in a corner.

My solution stopped that form of boosting from working. My solution also made XP exactly the same for whether you are in a party or not.

The "share only if damage was dealt" thing has a lot of problems. I'm more inclined to go with a modified ranging mechanic, personally. If you get some sort of scavenger-leech you can always kick.

Even though I don't really like all results of DDT's suggestion, I personally like it better than this one.

Being active and killing doesn't mean all players will be overlapping damage. Requiring it would kill XP in groups. Even in poorly geared groups there's already a lot of overkill going on.

"

StillSingle wrote:

Also, based on your testing, it appears that the formula (current) isXPGroup = BaseXP*1.3*(1+.5*n), where n is the players. Then XPearnedByPlayer = XPGroup/n.

Not sure where you get that. I'm still saying its +65% per person after the first.

Using your formula, and the example of 1000 base exp, and 2 players. You would get 1000 *1.3 * (1+.5*2) = 1000*1.3 *2 = 2600.
Which is no where close to 1650 exp.


About the group style of play. Again why does a party member have to do DPS or even hit a mob to get exp? Many times the TANK is not AOEing but forcing mobs to hit him. Or even other times taking out the main mob (like a necro).

Which means he isnt going to be hitting mobs with AOE's.

For instance my templar is going to leap in and tank the FA/IPD golem. Bird's witch is going to spray LMP pulses everywhere and get all the small kills. Bird gets credited with every kill, I only get credit for one.

Who did the harder work? Coincidentally this guy gets shafted on experience.

Sorry DDT, it should be (n-1).

1000*1.3*(1+.5*(2-1))) = 1950
then shared will be = 1950 /2 = 975

for 4 peeps = 1000 *1.3 * (1+ .5*(4-1)) = 3250
then shared would be = 3250 / 4 = 812.50

which seems more sensical, and fits with the formulae in the mechanics thread. Also sensical in the sens that the formula should only be awarding 50% moer experience per player in, but then the total xp is being split over everyone. Also sensical in that it is expected that you should be able to kill more because the HP only increases by 50% vs damage increase of 100% (or at the very least > 50%) :P :)

zala, you didn't actually mentioned what would go wrong......??? Unfortunately I'm not much of a mind reader :P :) also see PPS at the bottom.

BTW, the current system only rewards when boosting (leaving fillers at the corner of a map) then clearing singly (as then the xp doesn't get split between the group). This has been shown empricly through the single only races speeds and the party races speeds being very close.

from a coding point of view, continuosly computing screen distances between 6 players, and determining which monsters are going to be counted in or out, or by how much would be crazy intensive on processing cycles.

PS: my XP formulae actually awards party players with the same XP for killing the same mob as if they were playing SP. The actual current system gives you less per mob, butdoesn't boost mob HP by as much as what the party increase in damage should be.

PPS: My XP formulae alone would make kiting not an issue. All you have to do is comupte instance wide whenever players enter or leave (computationally cheap). regardless of where fillers are, the people killing will get the exact same XP regardless. If they are with fillers, they will actually find it harder! :)

EDIT: put ZALA's name in my post (much more polite than , "hey guy above DDT's post:P " :D :)

"

StillSingle wrote:

Sorry DDT, it should be (n-1).

1000*1.3*(1+.5*(2-1))) = 1950
then shared will be = 1950 /2 = 975

for 4 peeps = 1000 *1.3 * (1+ .5*(4-1)) = 3250
then shared would be = 3250 / 4 = 812.50

which seems more sensical, and fits with the formulae in the mechanics thread. Also sensical in the sens that the formula should only be awarding 50% moer experience per player in, but then the total xp is being split over everyone. Also sensical in that it is expected that you should be able to kill more because the HP only increases by 50% vs damage increase of 100% (or at the very least > 50%) :P :)

zala, you didn't actually mentioned what would go wrong......??? Unfortunately I'm not much of a mind reader :P :) also see PPS at the bottom.

BTW, the current system only rewards when boosting (leaving fillers at the corner of a map) then clearing singly (as then the xp doesn't get split between the group). This has been shown empricly through the single only races speeds and the party races speeds being very close.

from a coding point of view, continuosly computing screen distances between 6 players, and determining which monsters are going to be counted in or out, or by how much would be crazy intensive on processing cycles.

PS: my XP formulae actually awards party players with the same XP for killing the same mob as if they were playing SP. The actual current system gives you less per mob, butdoesn't boost mob HP by as much as what the party increase in damage should be.

PPS: My XP formulae alone would make kiting not an issue. All you have to do is comupte instance wide whenever players enter or leave (computationally cheap). regardless of where fillers are, the people killing will get the exact same XP regardless. If they are with fillers, they will actually find it harder! :)

EDIT: put ZALA's name in my post (much more polite than , "hey guy above DDT's post:P " :D :)

Are you asking for this change or are you saying this is how it is?

Because currently, you wouldnt get 3250 exp for 4 people you would get 2950. Or 737.5exp per person if they were of equal level.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say with your formula.

About the exp of group systems. Pretty sure just shown normal playing as a group cases of where your exp system fails, yet to see you disprove that, or offer a better way to fix it.

BTW Currently, system doesnt only reward boosting when fillers are at the corner of the map. Even when EXP is split, boosting is still a problem.

"

MrDDT wrote:

Are you asking for this change or are you saying this is how it is?

Because currently, you wouldnt get 3250 exp for 4 people you would get 2950. Or 737.5exp per person if they were of equal level.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say with your formula.

About the exp of group systems. Pretty sure just shown normal playing as a group cases of where your exp system fails, yet to see you disprove that, or offer a better way to fix it.

BTW Currently, system doesnt only reward boosting when fillers are at the corner of the map. Even when EXP is split, boosting is still a problem.

There was two parts to my post. based on your experience in how much xp gets awarded using the CURRENT system, you must be right.

What I don't agree with is that the current system supports boosting by playing normally in a party. The maths just isn't there. Even your equation proves that you get less XP per monster than you would get if you were killing solo (not in a party). You proved based on current experience that you get 737.50XP each in party for a 1000xp monster solo (not in party).

"normal playing in a group fails"? That doesn't make any sense. For a start there are two parts to the solution I proposed. and in my previous post at the PPS, I actually siad you only need the formulae to discourage any form of boosting.

from my original post on the XP formulae suggestion:
"eg: XP from kill = 100 (base)
player 1 lvl = 10
player 2 lvl = 1
XPPartyBoost%% = sumOfLow / high = 1 / 10 = 10%
Player 1 XP share = player 1 lvl / sumOfPlayerLevels
Player 2 XP share = player 2 lvl / sumOfPlayerLevels
XP from Kill Adjusted = 110 (XP from kill*XPPartyBoost%%)

Player 1 would receive 100XP (rounded 99.9999999999)
Player 2 would receive 10XP then have their penalties for being under leveled applied (4 level below grace, then XP penalty after that. Look up the mechanics thread for it).
So player 2's adjusted XP would be 10*(XP penalty for being underlevelled to area level).

I'll quickly do the same for 3 party to see that it comes out correct:
P1 = 10 lvl
P2 = 1
P3 = 1
XPPartyBoost = 20% ((1+1)/10)
P1 share = 10 / 12
P2 share = 1 / 12
P3 share = 1 / 12
Adj Xp from kill = 120
P1 gets 100 (99.999999999 rounded)
P2 gets 10 adjusted for penalties for low level
P3 gets 10 adjusted for penalties for low level
"

as long as the calculation on shares of XP get updated when someone levels, or enters/leaves theinstance, then it will work.

PS: note that this doesn't need the flag to work. That was just an idea, which I thought would be computationally better than the continually work out 2 screens distance suggestion from previous people.

PPS: note also that I fleshed this out in a post further down the page whereby I suggested that HP be scaled almost 100% and that damage should also scale slightly (5%).

PPPS: so now that hopefully has divorced the idea that the XP formulae that I suggested NEEDS to be linked with an unrelated flag idea for damage dealt by monsters, what do yuo think of the XP formulae?

PPPPS: yes I agree with you that the flags isn't the best solution and may be problematic, however the two NORMAL ways that were described above that would break it I have debunked previously (tank and summoner).

"

THEHORNEDRAT wrote:

That's right, POE must be able to, can, and does run multiple instances on one computer. Those with extra beta keys, why not try it now?

To not allow multiple instances means GGG loses the ethical microtransactions moniker. People who can buy stash tabs become get a huge advantage in recipe and currency farming mechanics.

I dont think this is correct. Once GGG work out online trading there will no longer be a need for you to run multiple instances. You should never have to play the game with more characters than you can manually handle (The online trading will eliminate the only situation where we actually need to run multiple instances)

"

Metronomy wrote:

I dont think this is correct. Once GGG work out online trading there will no longer be a need for you to run multiple instances. You should never have to play the game with more characters than you can manually handle (The online trading will eliminate the only situation where we actually need to run multiple instances)

bingo

Good to clear that one up.