To all legit players
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The present state:
At the moment monster base XP increases by 65% per player after the first one, while monster HP increases by 50%. There are two problems with this: 1. Being in a group and soloing mobs is very good XP due to increased XP / HP of mobs, as well as reduced time spent running between packs. 2. Maps, particularly high level ones have a limited amount of XP from a high level source. By adding players to the instance you increase this scarce resource. Here is my suggestion to GGG: 1. Cap the XP gained for each player per mob at Base_XP * (1 + 0.15 * (players in zone - 1)). We know at present it's tilted too heavily in favor of it being very worth while to add players to the area while going off killing by yourself for max XP. Instead of the 65% additional XP per each 50% additional hp, with my proposal this will only be 15% additional XP for the cost of 50% increased HP. 2. For maps only (due to their unique nature of being limited), further lower the cap to Base_XP. A player should never receive more XP for killing a mob in a map while group than he would've while killing it alone. Note that my proposal changes nothing in the desired grouping scenario, which is a group of players of roughly the same level killing mobs while all being around each other (currently you get 70-82.5% base xp per mob while being in a group of equally leveled players). What my proposal changes only affects the players in one of two scenarios: 1. They group up with players of significantly lower level than they are, i.e. boosting. This is precisely the type of scenario we want to change. 2. If they group up and split up away from each other, each player going to kill in another area. This scenario is demonstrably too beneficial for the players at the moment, and my change will tone it down, while not being too harsh towards the players who are not trying to game the system, but merely party up and become separated. Should my proposed value of 15% be deemed too low (or high) it can easily be adjusted to what is considered appropriate. My Marauder 3 hour race video guide - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/52146 XP rate for different areas - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/53056 Last edited by NotThat#3595 on Oct 3, 2012, 5:12:40 AM
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" Not sure how you dont see this as it has been explained already, and tested already. High level playing with low levels (even if they are near them) will be boosted. Level 80, playing with 5 level 1's will get 425% of the solo exp of the monster. " Problem with this, is that you are now giving a lot more exp out in a group while grouping, than you currently are for = level groups. Player 1 = level 10 Player 2 = level 10 XPPartyBoost%% = sumOfLow / high = 10 / 10 = +100% XP from a kill adjusted = 200exp When currently they are getting 65% instead of 100% bonus. So instead of getting 165xp, you would now get 200xp. This problem is worse also, when you start to group up with your friends who is 1 level off you of or even 2 levels. Now you are just sucking all the exp (like the current system only worse) from the party, and you cant really party with your friends in fear of sucking up all the exp. " I didnt (and still dont) see any debunking of a tank killing a solo mob and the AOE people getting way more exp, even with the tank doing the risky stuff. |
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" I see this as a totally valid option, the only problem with this is with the split up, you are losing a ton of exp for work, so you are forced/encouraged to stay together. Which isn't all that bad. I also think a 15% cap is a little low. |
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"I also think having to hit the mobs poses huge problems, and limits the way you play the game, as well as being a discouragement for party play in general (if you cant hit the mobs you will be better off soloing) Obviously you have never played a 'full support' witch who uses only auras & curses and doesnt attack. This is a legitimate way to play, why should you be disadvantaged for performing your role (double cursing everything). "I know I said this before, but this example is how I originally thought parties worked. It isnt necessarily bad either way you have it, just changes your play style slightly. From the way the experience mechanics work they reduce level disparities between party members (if you take into account the exponential exp required to level), while splitting up your instances goes against this party philosophy (because it can CREATE a disparity). That is why I was so surprised when I found out about this tactic, but when you finally group up the difference gradually gets reduced again. Though I dont see this to be bad or what we are calling 'boosting', its just a party tactic. (im using OP's definition on boosting if your wondering, because im talking about real parties and not bots) Last edited by Metronomy#6891 on Oct 3, 2012, 6:29:02 AM
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" Yuo missed the important part of my solution... splitting from the groupXP to the individuals of the party. (note, I've correctly put in XPAdjustedFromKill, which was missing in the original post, but implied by my example contained there). Player 1 share = XPAdjustedFromKill * Player1LvL / SumofLevels Therefoer player 1's XP = 200 *10 /20 = 100. which is what I expected the formulae to do. I'll skip your arguments as they are based on something different. As Metro has stated and other people above, the flags would actually cause issues for legitimate play (non attacking classes). As I said, I'm not going to continue this line of thought. NotThat, I like your idea of the XP limit. One question I have for ALL of you: WHY should people in a party gain MORE XP than if you are playing solo? I ask because everyone's solutions seems to imply that this is how it should be (except my solution which equates experience to what is achieved solo). |
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i like the concept of xp being equal in grp compared to solo
but killing speed/safety should increase while in grp |
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I actually do not have a good answer StillSingle.
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" Agree with the changes you proposed because if you party up you should gain the most benefit when actually killing together and not running around soloing. Getting penalties for soloing in a group should make people play better together aswell and helping each other out more. Getting 15% +exp and 50% +monster hp should actually be good enough. |
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This is a really complex issue because of the scope of play it affects, everything from default to hardcore, solo, partied, races, casual play, competitive play, it affects everything. Ultimately some aspect of this play is going to be affected more than another, my honest opinion and of course it could easily be wrong, is that the best way to deal with this is with simply making it incredibly hard for one person to gain a massive advantage over another. Absolutely the only conclusion I end up with is that it is a balance issue.
I don't know how the developers want to deal with this, but one of the easier ways, currently, not just for getting information on balance, but for actually leveling the playing field is simply making it accessible to everyone. As a beta tester and player, you shouldn't just be trying to get the best out of the system currently, but whatever would be best going forward. |
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" You understand what you just said is what I posted? The mob gives 200XP in your formula which is +100% exp of the base. Each player would get 100XP which is = to 100% of the base. Currently in a group, players get +65% per extra person, which means it would be a total of 165exp per mob, which is 82.5 exp per to each player. Or 165exp/150hp, 1.10 exp/hp ratio. You are asking for a 1.33 exp/hp ratio (changes with more people and gets higher for more people, with 6 people it would be 1.71 exp/hp ratio) You are adding more than 17% to the exp formula for each player. I'm asking why? Then you later ask "Why should people in a party gain more xp than if you are playing solo". So my answer to your question is, I don't believe parties should gain more exp than you can gain solo, I think it should be less, as I stated it should. Even Notthat's idea which is a 15% bonus, is LESS than you would gain solo. Let me work it out for you. Solo mobs give 100 exp, and have 100hp. Notthat's idea would be mobs give 100exp+15% per person. So players would end up getting less exp, per kill than they do now. At 2 players it would be 115/150 = .76 exp/hp ratio. As you can see a huge step back in the amount of exp you get in a party. Which is why I don't really like it, and I said you would be doing more work, and pretty much forced to stay together. With 6 players you would be getting 175exp/350hp. Which is only .5 exp/hp ratio. Which is 1/2 of a solo player, playing without anyone in the area. |
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