Razer Footprints: Poll

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Wittgenstein wrote:

I have no issues with them, they are there for a second and gone. People are making mountains out of molehills and assuming that 1 game "add" is going to result in pepsi commercials running whenever you click on a vendor - this is called the 'slippery slope' fallacy, and it is being committed in record amounts on the PoE forums of late.

It's not a slippery slope argument if people are simply worried about the integrity of the game.

You know how many times I've heard shit like this?

"No - we don't intend to sell out! It's just this one time and we just need a bit of cash. We have the utmost integrity!"

It's like finding your alcoholic friend in the bar and he claims it will be the "last time."

People are rightfully concerned.

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tikitaki wrote:

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Wittgenstein wrote:

I have no issues with them, they are there for a second and gone. People are making mountains out of molehills and assuming that 1 game "add" is going to result in pepsi commercials running whenever you click on a vendor - this is called the 'slippery slope' fallacy, and it is being committed in record amounts on the PoE forums of late.

It's not a slippery slope argument if people are simply worried about the integrity of the game.

You know how many times I've heard shit like this?

"No - we don't intend to sell out! It's just this one time and we just need a bit of cash. We have the utmost integrity!"

It's like finding your alcoholic friend in the bar and he claims it will be the "last time."

People are rightfully concerned.

Your comparison is inadequate; your alcoholic friend has precedence working against him, GGG do not.

As I said in the announcement thread, I appreciate a healthy amount of cynicism, but that's not what this is. This is slippery slope fallacy, as there is no empirical evidence and no logical basis for the arguments being made. They're knee jerk reactions and lack substance. To those who have expressed concern that this may become precedence, good on you; you've provided good feedback. Everyone else is just bitching because they can, else, if they weren't just bitching, they'd present an actual fucking argument.

You are right, though--people (can be) rightfully concerned, but that is not what is on display here.

As to the poll: If I didn't already run out of fucks given to more substantial issues, I may have had one to give for this. There is no problem beyond the fascinations of a community with nothing better to do. Therefore, I like the effects. They'll proxy for my necrotic foot prints until those go on sale.

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CanHasPants wrote:

You are right, though--people (can be) rightfully concerned, but that is not what is on display here.

So you group together 30 pages of responses and feedback and just say "no, these people aren't concerned."

Are you serious?

We now have a footprint available that stamps a corporate logo over Wraeclast.

And there is precedence working in my favor. The precendence of 200+ years of corporate history showing that when companies start selling out, they continue to sell out.

It's not rocket science, and it's not an exercise in first order formal logic, so drop the talk of "fallacies." It's childish at best and trolling at worst.

Hi

Still no issue with razor logo besides it being out of place. Maybe it could be more gritty or the suggestions of making a razor transaction for EK or tempest shield sounds waaaay cooler(the logo on tempest shield would have been perfect) and EK's already shuriken micro trans almost looks like razor logo already.

If there was actually a problem to me it would be that with the choices of cosmetic transaction footprints why choose razor when there are better choices for footprints?

Be original Razor and ask GGG to move your design to tempest shield and make the first shield cosmetic transaction. Now that's advertising being the FIRST in something.

cheers

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tikitaki wrote:

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CanHasPants wrote:

You are right, though--people (can be) rightfully concerned, but that is not what is on display here.

So you group together 30 pages of responses and feedback and just say "no, these people aren't concerned."

Are you serious?

We now have a footprint available that stamps a corporate logo over Wraeclast.

And there is precedence working in my favor. The precendence of 200+ years of corporate history showing that when companies start selling out, they continue to sell out.

It's not rocket science, and it's not an exercise in first order formal logic, so drop the talk of "fallacies." It's childish at best and trolling at worst.

I never said they aren't concerned, I said that is not what is on display here. People are making leaps to conclusions that haven't come to be, and accusing GGG of doing something they have not yet done. If that isn't fallacy, I don't know what is.

There is also precedence working against you. Two decades of corporate buyout in the gaming industry, publishers pushing their unethical schemes* onto developers; something GGG have had none of. They could have easily gone to one of Activision's competitors with their early alpha build and requested funding. They would have had 60 developers adding all the polish PoE could ever need, but then it would no longer be their game. A promotional footprint is not selling out, not even close, to the degree that GGG have maintained their independence and integrity while offering an ethically sound free to play game.

Be concerned if you like, but don't pretend people's adolescent rants are anything more than just that. GGG are still miles above the likes of Bethesda, Square Enix, etc... Doesnt mean that can't change. but fucking foot prints certainly don't do it.

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CanHasPants wrote:

People are making leaps to conclusions that haven't come to be, and accusing GGG of doing something they have not yet done.

I think you are deeply confused.

People are accusing GGG of doing something that they just did, and that's selling out your theme and allowing corporate logos inside your game.

Have other companies done even worse things? Of course - but that's not much of an argument. You can always do something worse. That doesn't make selling out somehow "better."

This isn't fiction. It just happened. It's on the front page with a news post. This thread talks about it.

It's great that GGG is getting $ to make Poe but if you are going to spam us at least get a better deal out of it. Poe has a big banner top center of the page

People that did not come from the Razer site are going to get the wrong impression about the game.
Razer has a smaller corner banner that's not the main focus of the page.

Not to mention the razor icons are actually in the game. Does their chat program have banner for PoE in it?

I concede I am not terribly great at expressing my thoughts. Allow me to clarify:

I do not intend to suggest that the whole sum of feedback, or that concern, is unwarranted. There has been good feedback. But the "what's next, cocacola vending machines?" is pure fallacy, and is what you chose to argue on behalf of, when you stated your opposition to Wittgenstein's opinion.

I am saying that those arguments are not simply "concerns", but are baseless, worthless, and downright imbecilic.

Let's take a quick look at the reality of this situation. GGG added a promotional cosmetic effect that displays the brand imaging of a partnering company. A cosmetic effect that is unobtrusive and made to fit with the thematic aesthetics of Wraeclast--there is no comparison between this and pop up ads. The brand image of a company that is now part of Path of Exile--there is no comparison between this and cocacola vending machines. Let's be clear, that is what you are arguing on behalf of, and what I disagree with.

To the rest of my post, I am not suggesting that (if there were a real ethical issue) GGG would be justified because there are worse. I am suggesting that people are making accusations disproportionate to the reality of the situation, and in so doing are forgetting what great things GGG have done by not participating in the conventional industry; instead, they are pairing GGG with the lot that sincerely doesn't give a damn about a good game.

Don't care. Datacentres are paid for with cash, not ideals.

dislike

it reminds me about 9Dragons where you had to pay to remove adds from in-game