Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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Firecrest5 wrote:

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darkcoug wrote:

D3 just took a huge step towards the self-found movement by eliminating the AH. Your move GGG.

If you think D3 will ever go self-found, you're out of your mind.

Maybe you should see what the Diablo devs and Blizzard themselves have to say say on the matter, as they as they are heading towards self found, before you claim that others are out of their mind.

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Diablo 3 Game Director Josh Mosqueira noted that the Auction House "short-circuited [the] core reward loop" of Diablo 3, replacing monster drops as the primary way the vast majority of players acquired new gear.

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According to Blizzard, the removal of both the gold and Real Money Auction Houses dovetails with the Reaper of Souls expansion pack's focus on "Loot 2.0"—fewer items, but more of them legendary and epic, and all acquired through good old-fashioned hacking and slashing.

Link to arstechnica article http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/09/diablo-3-to-permanently-remove-its-auction-houses-in-march-2014/

Personally I think it's the best thing D3 could do. They have noticed that players are just buying their way to good items either with in game gold or real money and not by hacking and slashing, which is the whole point of an ARGP to kill mobs and get loot NOT to sit and play some economic trading simulator.

If they bring this out and it works well, then Diablo 3 might even get some money off me for the first time.


GGG take note buying your way to good gear is not how ARGP's should be run. Please bin your trading simulator and let the amazing ARPG that you created and then buried and suffocated underneath the trading simulator live to it's fullest without trading to win.

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Jaknet wrote:

GGG take note buying your way to good gear is not how ARGP's should be run. Please bin your trading simulator and let the amazing ARPG that you created and then buried and suffocated underneath the trading simulator live to it's fullest without trading to win.

This thousands times
Reaching page 100...

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Firecrest5 wrote:

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darkcoug wrote:

D3 just took a huge step towards the self-found movement by eliminating the AH. Your move GGG.

If you think D3 will ever go self-found, you're out of your mind. If you think the removal of the D3 AH has anything to do with the elimination of trading, you're crazy. If you think that this move (a move, mind you, to what PoE is already doing) is somehow a referendum that GGG should cater to this ridiculous idea, you're just plain nuts.

The biggest game in the genre has just made a major change to embrace the system PoE already has in place right now. If anything, this is just proof positive that GGG should stay the course.

Since mid last year (at the latest) Blizzard realised, eventually, just how the model that worked when global communication was bad.. cannot work in modern day.

They began by immediately implementing account bound crafting with targeted 'class' stats, requiring materials that had to be looted by the player, the first of many account bound and class specific changes we will see in D3.

Account bound is like a swear word in aRPGs, but we can't get back the era, pre D2jsp, pre modern communication, we just can't do that.

Trading is part of aRPGs, but so is loot-find progression, the two clash severely in modern day.

We can tune drops, knowing that every person everywhere has access to every item dropped anywhere, the result is to massively diminish the loot-find-progression part.

We can ignore that progression can be vastly accelerated and tune drops to loot-find-progression, this means that gamers who, to quote Bashiok of Blizz "obviously want the best gear possible, as soon as possible" gear up too quick with the overkill of gear via trading and become bored.

The old model SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK TODAY.

As terrible a corporation Blizzard are, they know what the fuck is going on in the genre now. They see their own bastardisation of loot-find by trying to keep it free trade, the genre cannot be what it was, it has to change because the global communication situation has changed and there is nothing they, GGG or any one else can do about that.

It's time to put the loot-find back into aRPG, and that means a certain amount of trade restriction, binding and class directed loot.

Sadly, something that GGG won't embrace, as the most important factor of this 'hardcore' aRPG is the fkn economy, as said by Chris himself.

Blizz are not learning from GGG with their trade changes (but they are in other areas), they are learning from the mess they created in D3 as far as loot-find goes, something that GGG saw and didn't learn from.

D3 bringing in SFL. I may have to play some D3 when/if it happens.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

It's time to put the loot-find back into aRPG, and that means a certain amount of trade restriction, binding and class directed loot.

IF Blizzard really manages to pull this off, and by that I mean a serious stab at the Self-Found loot model, (decent challenge, no loot pinata) on the PC...

then it will be the best aRPG development news from my point of view in like, forever.

Did not see the removal of both AHs coming at all, but I admit allowing myself to get cautiously optimistic even about RoS + loot 2.0. Now this?... could be a real game changer.

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DijiGo wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

It's time to put the loot-find back into aRPG, and that means a certain amount of trade restriction, binding and class directed loot.

IF Blizzard really manages to pull this off, and by that I mean a serious stab at the Self-Found loot model, (decent challenge, no loot pinata) on the PC...

then it will be the best aRPG development news from my point of view in like, forever.

Did not see the removal of both AHs coming at all, but I admit allowing myself to get cautiously optimistic even about RoS + loot 2.0. Now this?... could be a real game changer.

I sure hope GGG is paying attention. Hey Chris any thoughts?

i would get excited about D3's removal of the AH's... but that won't change the fact the game has garbage for skills or builds or any character development/customization at all..

I do pray however that GGG sees that a lot of ARGP players whether be PoE or D3 want a game where killing monsters and finding cool loot is what you spend your time doing!! not spending your time in an AH, trade channel, on some sort of poe.xyz trade website or anything like that...

please take note GGG !!!! also come on how sweet is that the thread has made it 100 pages.... let's make it go another 100 or until GGG gives us some options for a more satisfying gameplay style.

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Qarl wrote:

Can you play through self found? Currently there are issues with this, especially around the 40s. One of the main problems here is the availability of 4-linked items. Gear progression gets hard here, as replacement gear requires both beating existing gear in stats, and in skill support.

Hey Qarl. From a guy who only solo and never trade, I can confirm this. All my hardcore characters got stuck on Cruel act 2 in their 40s. My current highest lvl char is now a melee ranger lvl47. She had to buy a new weapon to continue progressing.

I believe self found is a good idea though. Because all high levels will just laugh if I say I never made it past 50, while infact I probably made my game 10x harder by not trading and playing solo. So I can very well be more skilled than a lvl90 player, where he got where he got simply due to trading.

Self found really goes with the hardcore game you want POE to be IMO. Because no trading is actually a MASSIVE self restriction.

Playing self found gives bragging rights and a sense of achievement you cant get with trading being available. I have no doubt that self found hardcore league will be popular.

The question is cost vs reward I guess. How much of a job is it, and how much money will it cost to create another server like this? Im guessing this is the main issue along with GGG not wanting the community spread too far out among the servers?

I can see the pros and cons of self found, but personally I want it and I do believe it will be a success.

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adubs300 wrote:

i would get excited about D3's removal of the AH's... but that won't change the fact the game has garbage for skills or builds or any character development/customization at all..

I do pray however that GGG sees that a lot of ARGP players whether be PoE or D3 want a game where killing monsters and finding cool loot is what you spend your time doing!! not spending your time in an AH, trade channel, on some sort of poe.xyz trade website or anything like that...

please take note GGG !!!! also come on how sweet is that the thread has made it 100 pages.... let's make it go another 100 or until GGG gives us some options for a more satisfying gameplay style.

Thing is, apparently they are addressing those fk ups, too.

It's making things really difficult for me, as besides the game failing so badly (which could be corrected), I swore to never pay them another penny for a single feature that I already paid for.

But when you have one company saying they are fixing the issues and coming out with statements like..
[paraphrased] "killing monsters to get your loot" "the best way to gear up to be by killing monsters" and sharing personal experiences in the flaws of modern global trading not the AH itself..

..and another coming out with statements like..
[paraphrased] "the economy in PoE is the most important factor" then going ahead and gating end game, challenging content behind partaking in such economy or otherwise by facerolling low content, then calling it fkn hardcore..

..well, one has to seriously consider where the aRPG and the hardcore, truly is.

Blizz, to me, are disgusting and I don't want them to have my money.
GGG, appeal to me in their ethics and morals, I want them to have my money, but what the hell they are doing to the aRPG genre is far worse than Blizzard ever did. They made some of the same mistakes as Blizz, then went and gated content and crafting behind it.