Self-Found (League) [Thread outdated!]

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Jackel6672 wrote:

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silvershadows wrote:

The ability to acquire BiS gear through trading is inherently toxic to gear based games. Currently, the difficulty of trading acts as a stopgap but in a game all about finding loot the ability to trade for it diminishes the value of playing to get gear in favor trading. D3 was destroyed by the ah and poe is suffering from it too though just not as bad. Trading for things other than cosmetic or mediocre items is bad.
Imo look at the Wow trading system. you can get some items from trading but in the end if you want to seriously gear your character you have to do it by playing and killing bosses. In contrast D3 for a long time was all about playing the ah to get your gear and playing your character was a waste of time.

The trading system in PoE is just weighing the game down for those of us who fled here from D3. Its not game breaking but it is definitely sub-par.

As I have never played WoW, are you saying that the high end quest / raid drops are bound per character, or can they trade for them as well?

In the current tier there is only one way to get the best gear and that's by killing bosses on heroic. The second best gear has two pieces (out of 15-16) that can be bought from other players.

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Godkas wrote:

all I want is fukin free league from entire RMT FUKER
self found league IS the answer

You have that already, at your discretion of course. RMT doesn't affect self found.

The item system and drop rates for the most part are fine, the game just has a massive learning curve. If you can't create an optimal character it will take you 20x as long to aquire good items.

The crafting system (specifically creating good rare items) is a bit too costly. I'm not really sure how to fix it, but currently it's far more cost effective to simply buy decent rares or even really expensive unique's than it is to craft rares. One of the main problems is that really good rares for many builds are far less common than even the rarest of uniques. Life builds for instance are far more gear reliant than Ci builds (they need more stats on items) yet often end up worse, this is a problem.

In any case if GGG want's to retain it's players self found doesn't really matter, there is nothing stopping anyone from playing self found currently. Everyone just seems to want everything to be easier, they fail to see the larger psychological reasoning behind GGG's decisions however. EG if everything is 10x easier, you will end up playing the game 10x less as you will run out of goals and have nothing left to achieve. This game is all about the next goal/upgrade one in the same.

The vast majority of long lasting games have a large competitive component, this is often a large part of what keeps players around. As someone who achieved grand master in SC2, the current race system is extremely uninteresting and doesn't really add to any other part of game play. It's just not fun not rewarding and in a way it's completely separate from the rest of the game. The time investment in races adds very little to the rest of your game play. It's almost like playing a different game and if I wanted to do that there are hundreds of games far better than the poe race system. I'd be interested in seeing the statistics on what percent of players consistently participate in races.

Competition and social aspects are the core of any long lasting game, that's what GGG needs to focus on. Creating the next searing bond isn't a very good use of time.

Id like to add that when I find a really good rare item, I'm inclined not to sell it because of how hard it would be to find and item like it again. This causes people to hoard their good rares and sell their good unique's.

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silvershadows wrote:

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Jackel6672 wrote:

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silvershadows wrote:

The ability to acquire BiS gear through trading is inherently toxic to gear based games. Currently, the difficulty of trading acts as a stopgap but in a game all about finding loot the ability to trade for it diminishes the value of playing to get gear in favor trading. D3 was destroyed by the ah and poe is suffering from it too though just not as bad. Trading for things other than cosmetic or mediocre items is bad.
Imo look at the Wow trading system. you can get some items from trading but in the end if you want to seriously gear your character you have to do it by playing and killing bosses. In contrast D3 for a long time was all about playing the ah to get your gear and playing your character was a waste of time.

The trading system in PoE is just weighing the game down for those of us who fled here from D3. Its not game breaking but it is definitely sub-par.

As I have never played WoW, are you saying that the high end quest / raid drops are bound per character, or can they trade for them as well?

In the current tier there is only one way to get the best gear and that's by killing bosses on heroic. The second best gear has two pieces (out of 15-16) that can be bought from other players.

So you can't trade the gear you get off Heroic bosses? Or is it just something no one does.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

I agree that if they don't adjust drop rates a self found league is really pointless (Just from my point of view of course).

I don't necessarily agree that a self found league with adjusted drop rates would be easier though nor do I think that people who want that league really want the game to be easier. If you can't trade then you are completely at the mercy of RNG so even if the game had increased drop rates your still going to get screwed over plenty. But people are fine with that because they will actually get a lot of nice drops instead of only trading for nice drops. It should really be an equal trade off, self found should NOT be inherently easier.

For example as I wrote above I make builds designed around uniques. In a self found league I would no longer plan a build and then make it. I would have to wait until I found cool uniques AND THEN make a build around them. This is because I can't trade for that unique so I have no clue when I will get it. I am at the mercy of RNG.

I completely understand what you're saying. The concept of leagues though are based on the core leagues S/HC. If it makes any aspect of the game easier than those two, they won't make it into a league. Basically, if they made the league have increased drops, the drops would bleed over to S/HC. Currency farmers etc.

Now a 2 - 4 month Descent style (destroyed at the end) league is something I could see actually being able to happen.

You are right that if the gear bled over to sc/hc it would destroy their economies.
No one wants SFL to bleed into them though.

For my part I hate temporary allocation leagues and want a permanent league alongside hc/sc.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

So you can't trade the gear you get off Heroic bosses? Or is it just something no one does.

gear tradability is often on a case by case basis but for heroic gear you cant trade it and once you equip an item it becomes bound to you.

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silvershadows wrote:

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Jackel6672 wrote:

So you can't trade the gear you get off Heroic bosses? Or is it just something no one does.

gear tradability is often on a case by case basis but for heroic gear you cant trade it and once you equip an item it becomes bound to you.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. I wondered how they managed to keep people doing raids at times.

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You are right that if the gear bled over to sc/hc it would destroy their economies.
No one wants SFL to bleed into them though.

For my part I hate temporary allocation leagues and want a permanent league alongside hc/sc.

Well, with no bleed over and having it not being temporary would basically be the same as playing Softcore by yourself. Since they won't make any league thats easier than those two.

A crafting race would be pretty sweet though. 1 month race where every chest was guaranteed to drop some form of currency.

It just seems like being able to buy gear in a game about farming gear is counter-intuitive. I think the concept of ARPG and what makes it fun is antithetical to gear trading.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

Well, with no bleed over and having it not being temporary would basically be the same as playing Softcore by yourself. Since they won't make any league thats easier than those two.

Removing trading would make the game harder...... drops could then be modified to a point where it takes the same mount of time to get the same amount of gear as if you had traded for it.

This idea that increasing drops while removing trade makes the game easier is a logical fallacy. It all depends on how much they change the drops. Hopefully they would balance it.

Self found is currently quite possible. Everyone just seems to want to find an exalt every 30 minutes, so they can craft the best items in the game. And be completely bored after a weeks game play. The journey is often far better than the destination, be careful.

And splitting up leagues even further is going to destroy the social aspect of a game that already has a relatively small player base. If anything, they should simply add the ability to make a character self found only upon creation. Within the same league as everyone else and give these players and increased drop rate to compensate.